What would happen if Bethesda made a Soulslike? Taylor thinks this game would be the outcome. Join us for a conversation about a dark fantasy action RPG called Lords of the Fallen.
What would happen if Bethesda made a Soulslike? Taylor thinks this game would be the outcome. Join us for a conversation about a dark fantasy action RPG called Lords of the Fallen.
Welcome back to Hip Fire, a mini-series where we share our first impressions about a game after 5–10 hours of gameplay. In this episode, we cross into the realm of the dead (Umbral) to talk about a third-person action RPG called Lords of the Fallen. We didn't play long enough to become immersed in the main story, but your mission as fabled Dark Crusaders is to embark on an epic quest to overthrow Adyr, the demon god. Joseph thought the combat was decent, and Willie had trouble enjoying this game so close to the release of Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree, and Taylor was impressed by some of the enemy designs. Overall, we thought the Umbral Lamp mechanic was the most original concept in the game, but the game still has a lot of bugs to iron out—even EIGHT MONTHS after its release. If you enjoy playing soulslike games and have a subscription to Game Pass, it might be for you. But be careful around that asshole red-colored grim reaper because he'll steal your lunch, call you a dork, and shove it down the back of your pants.
Here's the full transcript for this episode.
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00:00:00
[Alienated by ELFL plays in background]
Joseph: I fell so often in the Pilgrim's Perch.
Taylor: Oh.
Joseph: Going through all of that, I got knocked out so many times by everything it seemed.
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Joseph: Except for maybe the little ghouls.
Willie: I think I just really hate the platforming in this game.
Taylor: Yeah.
Willie: I'm so bad at it. I'm way worse at it than I am in Elden Ring or any other fucking game. I just think that the thing that bugs me the most is that you can't jump while you're just standing.
You just like can't jump straight up. That's not a thing. You have to like hit the stick forward and sprint and then jump or it just doesn't work. I'm glad that sprint is on the stick because that makes it better.
Joseph: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm..
Willie: Maybe, I don't know.
Joseph: Yeah, it does.
Willie: But I fucking miss the jumps so often, way more than I should.
Joseph: Yeah.
Willie: I think I'm just bad at games because of, because of how bad I am at jumping to a platform.
[Alienated by ELFL fades out]
[Intro theme plays - Tiger Tracks by Lexica]
Joseph: What's up everyone? Welcome to Berries and Blades. Thanks for tuning in for a casual conversation about video games. My name is Joseph and I'm here with my friends, Willie and Taylor, and we're just three guys looking forward to zooming around on Kay Vess's S57 Cardinal Speeder. But I digress. What's up, y'all?
Taylor: What's up? Just happy to do another hip fire.
Joseph: What's up?
Taylor: Talk about a game that we played.
Joseph: Hip fire.
Taylor: We never get to talk about games on this podcast, but today's going to be different.
Joseph: That's right.
Taylor: We're going to talk games, but yeah, I am pumped about Outlaws. Seems very cool. It's a cool concept. I'm actually not watching much on it trailer wise or gameplay just because I want it to be a surprise when it comes out.
Do we know when it releases? They do have a release date on that, right?
Joseph: August 30.
Taylor: Wow. Oh, that's real soon. Okay.
Joseph: Mm hmm.
Willie: I didn't watch the most recent gameplay stuff. I like fast forwarded through it and saw that It looks really nice, but I haven't actually like watched the whole thing or watched them talk about it.
I did see the whole get on your speeder bike, zoom around, get in your spaceship, take off, fly into space, do some-
Taylor: Oh!
Willie: -dog fighting in space, then go to hyperspace.
Taylor: Was it pretty seamless? Like similar to No Man's Sky or something like that?
Willie: Yeah, yeah, very seamless.
Taylor: Hmm.
Willie: And then jump to-
Taylor: Wow!
Willie: -light speed and then go to a new planet. And like just-
Taylor: and who's making this?
Willie: -go land on it.
Taylor: Who's the developer behind this? Do we know, like, is it a well known team or?
Willie: I know Ubisoft is the publisher, but like, I don't know who actually is doing the, uh, Massive Entertainment.
Joseph: Yeah.
Taylor: Hmm.
Joseph: That's right.
Taylor: That sounds familiar.
Willie: That's right. Cause they're using the Snowdrop engine, which is Tom Clancy's The Division.
Taylor: Oh.
Willie: We talked about this on a podcast before-
Joseph: We did
Willie: -for sure. Because we talked about Tom Clancy was. Division, The Division Two used the engine and that was a weird one. There was like some rhythm game that uses it too, or something.
Joseph: Right.
Taylor: That's good because the, um, The Division had a good engine. The game is what I wasn't a big fan of. It was more of the overall story. The things going on just weren't compelling to me, but the engine was nice. So, and you said it looked really good, right? Graphically.
Joseph: I think it looks good. I have a problem with the way they like render her hair. Like, I don't know, it just bugs me. I think it's parts because of the style they chose for her hair, but also the way it looks.
I don't think it looks good in that style. So I kind of hope you can just update it.
Willie: In the early trailers, it definitely looked like her hair or like even facial movements were really weird and like almost kind of framey in the way that they moved.
Joseph: Mm-hmm.
Willie: Like a little jerky.
Joseph: Yeah, not fluid.
Willie: I don't know if that was the same in the most recent stuff.
Taylor: It reminds me a lot of Assassin's Creed here.
Joseph: I feel like her face, facial features and movements were better. But I was honestly just too distracted by the hair that I probably missed any of that stuff. I feel like that could be the shortcoming of this game. What people look like in those cutscenes and how good that is.
Willie: That's what I was worried about was the cinematics as far as like the way the game looks. But like the game when it's playing, hopping on the speeder bike and looking at the environment looks fucking cool.
Joseph: Yeah, all that shit looks good.
Taylor: The environments look beautiful. Oh my god. But...
Joseph: Yeah, the different biomes and different planets, they all look really good.
Taylor: That's gotta be a crazy choice to have to make because when you choose the hair for your main character, like the style and how you're going to render that. Then you also have the choice. Well, in cut scenes, are we going to render it better or are we just going to use-
Joseph: Yeah.
Taylor: -the engine, you know, and I could see the, I could definitely see how you would win over with, let me use the engine because then it's really moving and it matches exactly what's in the actual gameplay world, you know-
Joseph: Mm-hmm.
Taylor: -outside of the cut scene. But yeah, that's one of those risks that you have is that game hair just don't look that great, unless it's like a specific PlayStation studio or Xbox studios, you know, and it's the, they're like directly tapped into the ability and the newest tech and all that.
Joseph: I assume they chose that hairstyle because it looks very scoundrel like, gruff around the edges. I think that's probably what they're going for. I just wish it was more attractive hair.
Willie: [chuckles] This is making me, this is making me think of a bunch of different things. This one's the most related, which is when you were kids watching video games or cinematics or like just trailers for upcoming games, was hair like ever the like thing that you looked at and you're like, oh shit, can you see that hair?
Like the way it's moving, like this shit's going to be good. Was that-
Taylor: Yeah.
Willie: -ever like an indicator to you?
Joseph: Fuck no.
Taylor: Well, to me, I always looked at it as like the level of graphics that they had going on.
Willie: Right.
Taylor: I don't know how good their chops were because the hair is the hardest thing out of all of it, you know, you can mocap anything, but you can't mocap hair.
[Joseph chuckles]
Willie: I feel like I do remember having conversations as a kid, early Resident Evil stuff, like the first time that hair is like flowing and moving-
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Willie: -versus just like a static thing that moves exactly along with the head. I do remember being like, oh shit, this game is like graphically yeah, this shit looks better than anything else that has existed so far.
Taylor: And when you see it done the best of its class, like, um, Horizon Zero Dawn is a really good example of long flowy hair that, I mean, you're doing all kinds of crazy movements and diving around and shit and her hair. It's like an entity unto itself. This big mass of like dreads and free flowing locks and just, it's beautiful.
Joseph: Probably got mo capped, bro.
Taylor: It might have. They might have put a little mo cap suit on the hair and if they did, everybody needs to start doing that because it worked really well. I bet they had a whole team of 30 people making that hair or something. [Joseph chuckles]
Willie: Also, just so you know, Snowdrop Engine was used on, uh, Rocksmith+ as well.
Joseph: Right.
Willie: That was the rhythm game that I was thinking of, which is not really a rhythm game, but is also.
Joseph: I'm pretty sure they had an ad during Ubisoft Forward for Rocksmith.
Willie: Mm. I also, about that engine, noticed that xDefiant is also-
Joseph: Oh, right.
Willie: -using that engine.
Joseph: Yeah, that was one of the things in the middle of the presentation. Somewhere kind of tucked in there. I don't know that game.
Willie: Yeah, people have been playing that a lot. I haven't had the desire to go play it yet, but it's free to play. First person shooter.
Joseph: Hmm.
Taylor: Hmm.
Joseph: Okay.
Willie: Some people have been digging it while they're waiting on other things to play, but-
Joseph: Right.
Willie: -I haven't even decided yet to, uh, check it out.
00:07:17
Joseph: All right. Well enough about hair. [Taylor laughs]
[chuckles] We're back for another episode of Hip Fire, which is a mini series. We used to share our first impressions about a game after five to 10 hours of gameplay. Today's edition of Hip Fire is about a third person action RPG called Lords of the Fallen. And y'all thought we were done carrying and wielding a magical lamp? No.
Taylor: Mm-uhh.
Joseph: We're not done yet. But for now, we're swapping out Monad's lamp, which is the magical lamp that houses Gemini in Lies of P for Umbral Lamp, the magical lamp in Lords of the Fallen. This game is heavily inspired by FromSoftware games like Dark Souls, Bloodborne, and Elden Ring. It was released in 2023, developed by Hexworks, published by CI Games, and is basically a reboot of a game from 2014 that was also called Lords of the Fallen.
But in this game, you play as one of the fabled Dark Crusaders, and embark on an epic quest to overthrow Adyr, the Demon God. Something unique about Lords of the Fallen is the lamp that I mentioned earlier. It lets you see into, and even cross between, parallel realms. Axiom, the world of the living, and Umbral, the realm of the dead.
Anyway, we all wanted to play this game when it was released, but I think we all hit the brakes when we found out how buggy it was in its early days, but now it's on Game Pass, and I think some of those performance issues were fixed, so we gave it a shot.
Taylor, what do you think of the game so far?
Taylor: Hmm, I think that it's one of the toughest games I've ever tried to quantify into liking or not liking [Joseph and Taylor chuckle] because I love a good soulslike. It has got all the trappings of a soulslike and in really good ways. But it just fails on some levels and and one of the toughest things for me to get by was I love multiplayer on Souls games, on Elden Ring on any kind of Souls like.
I love to be able to summon people in. I love to be ab... to summon people in and not have to rely on your friends being there. And this game ain't it. I mean, I was sitting there for two hours, sometimes playing when you're at the Vestige, which is what the, the fire is called in this one. You have an option to open up multiplayer, like the menu of it, the UI, all that stuff is great.
You go in there and you click it. You say, I want to summon one. And you could say you want to summon someone and you can also click that you're okay with being summoned by someone, which at first, when I saw, I thought that's ingenious because you can do both and then whichever is available first, you'll go to.
And maybe three times in the probably 30 hours I've played it. Maybe 40. I don't know. I'm a level 60 now. I have found people to summon in and I don't know if it is a bug or if there are just no people playing. I don't know what's causing... I looked it up and the only thing I could find was posts from 2023 of people saying, Why can't I find anybody in this game?
Joseph: Really?
Taylor: Yeah, one of the top replies was something along the lines of because there's 1500 people playing it right now or something to that effect, but it might be way less now. It's either that or just a straight up bug, but that really frustrated me because what it equates to is that I have to grind a lot more.
I have to go fight the bosses on my own, which means I have to grind indefinitely to get my, my weapons up, my levels up, make sure everything's on point and then fight the boss and be on point with all of my movements and everything. So it's, it's a little bit frustrating and there are a lot of bugs in it for sure.
It's a, the thought crossed my mind while I was playing it. That this is what it's like if Bethesda made a Souls like game.
Joseph: [laughs] Oh, man.
Taylor: It's basically Dark Souls made by Bethesda.
Joseph: That's rough.
Taylor: It is, but it's the straight up truth.
Joseph: I think it's okay. I didn't try any of the multiplayer stuff. I did see the last boss I went through was, uh, that big fucker I mentioned. Congregator of Flesh, I think is the name.
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Willie: Yeah, yeah.
Joseph: I saw that there were little summon moths outside before you get to that boss fight. I didn't try it, but I know those aren't online multiplayers. Those are like in game NPCs you can summon, right?
Taylor: Yeah, I believe people that you've encountered and talked to and gone through their dialogue, they show up there.
Joseph: Oh, okay. That was gonna be one of my questions.
Willie: I tried one of those because I wanted to see it because I didn't know-
Joseph: Yeah.
Willie: -what it was going to be.
Joseph: I was wondering if it was people that are in the game or if it's just like some random kind of like almost like the random specter from Lies of P. Don't really know who that is, but is it like the same?
Willie: Yeah, I wonder if we're going to find that out. We don't need to talk about [Joseph laughs] that now, but I do wonder [chuckling] if we're going to figure that out at some point.
Joseph: If we don't, people are going to connect the dots for sure.
Willie: No, they're definitely people you've talked to-
Joseph: Okay, that's... that's cool.
Willie: -they're people you can find in the Skybridge. Is that what it's called, Skybridge Rest?
Taylor: Yeah, I believe so.
Joseph: Yeah. Or the Skyrest?
Willie: Skyrest?
Joseph: Bridge?
Willie: Bridge? Skyrest Bridge. Yeah.
Taylor: As like any Souls game, the naming on everything is just ridiculous. Even the Vestiges. I couldn't even remember what those were called for probably the first 10 hours. I just call them a fire.
00:12:19
Joseph: Yo, I have to say, the tutorial, I was overwhelmed.
Willie: That's the hardest part for this game, is the amount of stuff to learn to do.
Joseph: They throw a lot at you very quickly, and then I made the mistake of not finishing the tutorial, so then jumping back into the tutorial and trying to remember all the shit that was just said. Days later. And I had such a hard time, like understanding whether or not Umbral was the world of the dead or Axiom was the world of the dead in the tutorial sequence.
I was like, wait, which one am I seeing into? And I had a hard time understanding which world I was in in the moment, but there are some visual cues, like the eyeball kind of like flickering over there. And then there's the sounds, the sounds are different.
Taylor: Oh yeah. The sounds are horrifying. [Joseph laughs] The first, maybe five hours, I played it with just the sound on the TV because the baby was here.
And then they, uh, one of the later days I was playing, they went out. And so I was actually able to wear headphones and it was horrific. Like there are screams-
Joseph: Dude, the baby crying.
Taylor: -in there when you're in the Umbral. Yeah. There's a baby crying in the Umbral. I kept hearing that and thinking...
Willie: I remember we were playing together [Taylor laughs] and you heard the baby crying and were like, that's fucked up. I think, yeah, you were at that moment where like, yeah, that shit is very-
Joseph: Dad trigger?
Willie: -fucking triggering for me right now. [laughs]
Taylor: Yes, exactly. Every time the baby wouldn't even here and I'm just turning my head anytime I hear it.
Joseph: Yeah.
Taylor: That's what they're doing. They're trying to, there's a lot of trickery and I know, I want to hear what Willie thinks about it too, but man, there's a lot of... they are not scared to take a chance. Like, I will say that's one of the reason I've stuck with it. And I'm going to give you one example. Neither of you guys made it to a Vestige called the Fen, did you?
Joseph: I think I'm in that.
Willie: Maybe, I think that probably is...
Taylor: Okay.
Willie: Like F E N.
Taylor: Yeah. F E N. Fen.
Willie: Yeah. Yeah. I have been to that one.
Joseph: Is that not the whole area where that Congregator of Flesh is?
Taylor: It is, but there's a Vestige that's called Fen as well. It is the official Fen Vestige, and you are, it starts you looking in, down into a cave, and then behind you is a swamp with some guys that come out. So, I have never seen a Soulslike game do this before, but if you are standing at the Fen and you are doing anything other than resting, it means that your guy isn't locked in on it.
There is a character, uh, I, um, what are they called? It's these badass wolf warriors that have a long staff and they're super aggressive and they have poison.
Joseph: Oh yeah.
Taylor: They're nasty.
Joseph: They're taller and...
Taylor: Shinja maybe or something?
Joseph: They're on their hind legs standing tall?
Taylor: Yes, exactly. And there's one at the end of that cave where you're at the Vestige resting. And if you make one movement, when he's looking down that cave, he will come down there. He will come attack you on the Vestige, on the fire.
And I thought, that is insane. I have never ever in any of these games [Joseph chuckling] I've ever played like that's always a safe spot.
Joseph: Right.
Taylor: They never have an enemy close enough that one movement one step out of you, if that enemy is in the right place, he will come down there and fuck you up.
Joseph: Is this the spot where there's like another corridor where it has one of those spiky head motherfuckers?
Willie: No.
Taylor: No, it's a little bit after that.
Joseph: Okay.
Taylor: Those guys are also a trip but anyways, I just wanted to throw that out there that I've never seen a game do that before, and that's, it's one of those things where it seems very cheap, and they do have some cheap things to it, but it kind of makes it a little more fun?
Joseph: I'm trying to picture this, and whether or not I've been to that Vestige.
Willie: I do think the Fen one, you're right, is the one with the spiky headed dude, so it might be the one right after that. There's one called Fitzroy's Gorge, which I haven't been to yet.
Joseph: Taylor, is it the area where it's like, super fucking terrorizing swamp area?
Taylor: Yes. Yeah, that's it.
Joseph: You get to that Vestige, and then if you go towards that wolf character, you go out, it opens up really big, and then there's like a bridge.
Taylor: A giant bonfire?
Joseph: Yeah, it's in the middle. The bonfire's in the middle.
Taylor: That's it. Yep, that's the spot.
Joseph: There's a bridge and there's another one of those wolves walking underneath the little crossover.
Taylor: Yes, those wolves, I'd say that's probably my, the most fun enemy that I encountered in that game because those wolves, they can-
Joseph: Yes.
Taylor: -flat foot jump from the ground of like two stories onto a platform that you're on.
Joseph: I was not expecting that.
Taylor: Oh, man. They're terrifying.
Joseph: Dude, they'll fuck you up. If they team up on you and there's like three of them at once, they're hard.
Taylor: Oh, they will destroy you. Three at once. I don't think I've ever successfully fought.
Joseph: That happened to me and I was like, where did y'all come from?
Taylor: Yep.
Joseph: Because I thought-
Taylor: Yeah, how did you get here?
Joseph: -it was just that one that was coming through the cave at me and then like three more showed up behind it, and I was like, did this put out like a call for action.
Someone-
Taylor: Yeah.
Joseph: -sounded the alarm and now they're like ganging up on me.
Taylor: Yeah. Those are terrifying enemies.
Joseph: That area is where I'm at right now. That area is actually kind of terrifying.
Taylor: It is. Yeah-
Joseph: if you're in the Umbral...
Taylor: -you got guys that throw poison. You've got those dudes.
Joseph: Dude, the fucking things on stilts?
Taylor: Those guys, the striders are terrifying. Those things are so scary the first time I saw them and it is fun knocking their stilts out from under them though.
Joseph: I will say this game is way scarier than Elden Ring.
00:17:17
Taylor: Yeah, we'll talk about that some more though. I didn't mean to tangent. I want to hear what Willie, like your experience on it too so far.
Willie: Um, I don't know. I think it's similar to what you were saying that... I think this was a bad time for me to start playing this game is what I think. Because I've been playing Elden Ring a lot.
Taylor: Mm.
Willie: And so like, every time I'm playing this game, or every time I'm playing Elden Ring, I'm switching up my buttons because there's a couple differences, just basically the run button.
And I'll obviously always make comparisons between the two while I'm playing. And mostly it's like, I'm playing, but I'd rather be playing Elden Ring. Trying to-
Taylor: Yeah.
Willie: -get my shit ready for the DLC. And I'm actually past where I need to be for the DLC stuff, but it's like, I'm deciding whether or not I'm going to finish that game, that playthrough, or if I'm going to stop where I am.
I think, like Joey said, the tutorial in the beginning is kind of overwhelming. There's kind of so much shit you got to learn to do. For me, I never, I never know when I'm pulling out the lamp, what button to hit to do the thing I want to do. And that's probably just a me problem having only played five, maybe six hours of the game versus being like, you know, 10 hours in or something.
Taylor: Yes. I feel like, I feel like I understood the lamp at about 10, 10 plus hours. Before that it seemed more like a hindrance.
Willie: Just because there are times where like I'll hold out the lamp and I'm like, okay, well this thing, I got to hit R2 because I need to like attract this thing to me, but this other time I'm trying to kill this thing so I'd need to hit right bumper.
But also I think one of the things. That doesn't make sense. And I don't think it makes sense to anyone. Like, I don't think there's an explanation for this. Like that Congregator of Flesh enemy, he has a parasite. If you like attack the parasite and take it off, it literally changes nothing about that fight for me.
Taylor: I don't understand that either.
Willie: My damage doesn't get greater with each hit.
Joseph: Mm-hmm.
Willie: I do exactly the same amount of damage with either my spells or my axe, whether or not that parasite is alive. It's the exact same. I don't know why the fuck that exists at all.
Taylor: I don't either. I couldn't figure it out. I knocked it out twice, and then when I noticed nothing changed or I couldn't tell that anything changed, I just fought him normally. But, um, there is a boss later that I got to that there are actually little Umbral things everywhere, and if you siphon them or whatever, they blow up. They're like a bomb that's super useful against the boss. But I don't think that one was-
Willie: No, it didn't do anything.
Taylor: -so I was also right there with you, man. I was very confused.
Willie: That is the coolest thing about the game, is the lamp, though it is like the most, almost overly complicated thing to me.
It is the coolest concept, the fact that you hold up this lamp and you look into another dimension and you see stuff that you don't normally see, and that you can manipulate those things with the lamp. It's an interesting concept-
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Willie: -but to me it really does... I don't want to say it feels gimmicky, but it does in some, in some ways when it doesn't, like in that particular instance, it's like, well, why doesn't this matter?
I don't understand why it exists. Again-
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Willie: -it's interesting in its concept, but I think the execution, particularly on that boss, and maybe that's the only one that it doesn't seem to make a difference.
Joseph: The other enemies, it's almost like a shield layer-
Willie: Yeah.
Joseph: -that exists. And the, even the health bar is a different color. It's like brighter. It's white or something.
Willie: Yeah. It's a blue, light blue color if the parasite is protecting it.
Joseph: Yeah. And then you get rid of it and then it transitions to like a regular red health bar.
Willie: Yeah.
Joseph: I was confused on that boss as well. I don't know if it's just like a bug glitch with that one boss, but I feel like that's the way it's supposed to work.
Taylor: Could have also been maybe a certain damage type or maybe a certain thing does more damage once you've done that.
Willie: It doesn't make sense because like, I looked at the internet to figure it out. I was like, why do I need to fuck with this parasite? Because I tried that boss a few times. And all of the posts are from a year ago when the game came out or whatever, eight months ago or whatever.
And no one had any answers. They're like, no, it does the same amount of damage. They're just like, no-
Taylor: Huh.
Willie: -just keep hitting it. It literally doesn't matter.
Taylor: Hmm.
Joseph: The others like, you almost do no damage when the parasite is active-
Willie: Yeah, right.
Joseph: -but that boss, you can damage it without even ever trying to get rid of the parasite. So I think that's just kind of broken.
Willie: Which is weird because it's been eight months or something. When'd this game come out? Like September, October or something like that?
Joseph: Yeah, I don't know. Something like that. But yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And that is interesting. Yeah, I had the same thing happen and I, I assumed I wasn't understanding it correctly when I got there and I was like, wait, isn't that how it works?
But I was like, maybe I'm misremembering how it works. [chuckles] So I was doing it. I was trying to get rid of the parasite. And then when I thought I had done it, then I was attacking regularly, but I didn't notice any difference. And I didn't see like the shield health bar, like some of the other enemies and stuff like that.
So I think that's just straight up broken.
00:22:02
Taylor: I'm 50/50 on it. Maybe the boss was like, maybe it was too difficult if they actually made the Umbral do stuff, and the other half is there are lots of bugs in this game. I was like, how have you not fixed this yet? Is the development team still in business? Do they still exist?
Why haven't you fixed this? Because it's so close to a really good game in general. But man, there's some little bugs that are just, and I will say about the lamp, even at level 60 now, I mean, I barely use the lamp at all anymore. Like I learned how to use it and it was pretty good. There was a spot where you get into that one room with, I think, a NPC in it.
And if you shine the lamp up, you suddenly see there's like this big, uh, overhang that has a giant eye in it that's looking at you. Like there are moments like that that are really cool with it. But man, beyond that, that thing is worthless to me. If I use it to pull a big enemy and pull them out, like their soul out that you can do with it.
I don't do enough damage to ever justify messing with that. And I've even put on gear that makes you do more damage when they do that.
Joseph: Mm-hmm.
Taylor: But what it leads to is, okay, I pulled him out. I need to stab him or hit him as many times as I can. When he realigns with his soul, he's right by you. And he just immediately sets up a hammer on you-
Joseph: Mm-hmm.
Taylor: -and starts hitting you. So it, It never, ever makes sense for me to use that other than I've got to cross this bridge or something. Or I'll go into the Umbral because there is a multiplier on your, the amount of souls that you get whenever you kill stuff.
Joseph: Or you have to, like, like you can't go in the water in Axiom, so you have to traverse into Umbral-
Taylor: Yeah.
Joseph: -or walk with your lamp shining.
Taylor: It becomes more of an annoyance than anything else. And I think that's unfortunate because the concept there of the way that it shines, it looks at stuff is almost Alan Wake ish or something like it's got a-
Joseph: Totally, yeah.
Taylor: -really cool, scary, horror, mystery vibe. But that was one of the most disappointing things to me so far about it, about the game in general is that.
There's things that if you would fix that or tweak that or, you know, remove this bug, it would be that much better. That would be a really good game, solid, but it's almost, it almost has that feel of they've moved on. Like they're working on something else and that game is just straight up gathering dust.
Which hints maybe that's why I went to the Game Pass.
Joseph: I like the lamp. I think it's one of the best things about the game. I think the, Willie was talking about the operation of it. I felt like Willie, but now I've played enough that it's kind of second nature and-
Taylor: Yeah.
Joseph: -I can use it much more fluidly. So I had that same hesitation about it for five, six hours. And then there was, there was a moment where I was like, okay, now it's just clicking and I totally get how to use it. It might come with just a little, a few more hours. And then it was kind of, it just became super simple, but the way they throw it at you, it's a lot to learn and take in. And it's easy to forget-
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Joseph: -until you have put in that many hours to, to just kind of know it.
Willie: Well, and I think part of what added to that for me was I played the first like two or three hours with Taylor in Taylor's game.
Joseph: Mm.
Willie: And if he was doing that stuff, if I was distracting enemies or hitting enemies from range and he was dealing with parasites or whatever, I I was never having to deal with that.
And for the longest time, I couldn't get it to work for some reason. I like thought I was doing the right thing. I was hitting, you know, left trigger and then right bumper, but the parasite wasn't fucking dispelling for whatever reason.
Taylor: I think you weren't holding it, right?
Willie: Yeah, something was....
Taylor: Like you were just pressing it and didn't realize you had to-
Joseph: Mm.
Taylor: -actually hold it down and suck the-
Willie: Yeah.
Taylor: -Umbral into it.
Willie: And so like, Taylor was taking care of that for most of the time. By the time I got back to my game, I just didn't have the experience of doing that. So then I'm trying to relearn that while playing more.
Taylor: Oh, that was the other thing that pissed me off, was that the second time Willie and I tried to play, we couldn't even matchmake.
Joseph: Mm.
Taylor: Two friends couldn't even get together.
Joseph: That sucks.
Taylor: Yeah, that's a killer.
Joseph: One thing about the lamp I didn't, it took me a while to realize and come to terms with is that there was a difference between siphon and soulflaying. And at first I didn't know which one was which. Trigger is soulflaying where you pull the soul out of someone's body or you interact with objects that need interacting with in Umbral.
And then siphoning is what you use on like the blisters on the wall, what you use to get rid of the parasite. They're so similar in like the way they look in the game and obviously it's like trigger and bumper. So for a while I was confused about do I use siphon for this or do I use soulflaying for this and then what's the difference between the two.
00:26:32
Joseph: Got all that stuff down pack now. But can we talk about the fucking maps dude? [Willie chuckles]
Taylor: The maps?
Joseph: Or the lack of a, any kind of map. The map. Yeah, you-
Taylor: Oh, yeah.
Joseph: -probably like what map?
Taylor: Yeah, [laughs] there's a map?
Willie: You pick up maps and then you open them and it's like a two page layout of somebody's hand sketched notes of an area.
Taylor: Oh. [Joseph and Taylor laugh] I never even opened them.
Willie: Here's the entrance to this cave and it's just a picture of a, a sketch of a cave and it's like, there's nothing.
Joseph: Those things are more fucking useless than the Another Crab's Treasure maps or Starfield's map.
Taylor: Ooh, wow, that's an insult right there.
Willie: The main map, I guess, I don't know if you start with it, is just a big sketch of the whole, I don't know how much of the area of the world, it's like a big layout-
Taylor: Hmm.
Willie: -and it's just got a couple locations, I guess, maybe where your vestiges are or something, like, there's something marked on the map, but I didn't even look at it for that long, because I was like, this is not, again, I think everybody caught me at the wrong time to play this game, because I just don't give a shit.
I can't separate whether that's like the game is not good enough to make me give a shit or there's another game that I want to be playing more right now. So it's like a little unfair for me to, to be like, this game fucking sucks. Cause I don't, I don't know. I don't know that I've given it the opportunity to like win me over.
Taylor: That was my guess. When you said at the beginning that, you know, Elden Ring was kind of creating some conflict there, that was what I was thinking, was that, I mean, if you play Elden Ring, you are playing the best one of these that exists and ever has existed and probably will exist until somebody comes out with something insane.
And then to go into something that is, yeah, you got some cool concepts, you've pulled over all the souls like things that we like. But you've got it full of bugs. You've got a lot of things that just don't make sense. You've got a, you know, like there's all these different reasons. If I was hot on Elden Ring right now, I wouldn't be giving this the time of day at all.
Willie: And I'll bring it back to the map, that I like looked at that map for like two seconds. I had picked up a new one and I like tried to hit A to like zoom in or something and [Taylor laughs] it just switches to the next map. This is just a different page in the book. It's a different section. That's just a sketch of a couple of things.
There's like four objects or something sketched on this page. I kept hitting A to be like, this does nothing. It just goes to the next page-
Joseph: Mm-hmm.
Willie: -and then saw the overview of the whole world, which is just a sketch of a mountaintop and whatever. And it's like, okay. So this is useless, like I don't need this at all. There's no reason to collect this other than like, I collected it.
Joseph: Yeah, exactly. I think that was their intention too.
Willie: Yeah.
Joseph: They were like, we know these things are useless. I think it's okay though, because like, it's not an open world game. And that's why I think Another Crab's Treasure, it hurts more there, because that is more of an open world game, at least in some areas.
Taylor: Yeah. You can get lost. You can really get in some circles, whereas the circles on this one are a lot smaller.
Joseph: Yeah.
Taylor: About the third time you circle around an area if you're just running to see what's out there. You will pretty quickly realize, okay, I've been through here twice before.
Joseph: Right. And I think that's where it's, it's more like Dark Souls, you know, like how-
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Joseph: -linear it is, or it's like a Lies of P. You don't really need a map to play the game. You might get a little lost, but it's small enough that you can kind of figure out where you've been and where you haven't been.
Taylor: I like the designs. I like the character designs. I like the enemy designs. The, I think they did a really good job of the bosses making them, I guess, I mean, a lot of it, what was it? Congregator of Flesh.
A lot of them feel very, very inspired by Souls characters to the point that I have found myself wondering if I had seen that in a soulslike [Joseph laughs] game, like if there was a, you know, that exact character. And I don't know if that's for better or for worse. It just seems like they were trying to really, really reproduce that in a lot of different ways.
And, but like we were talking about the wolf guys, like there were some really cool enemies on there, or there are some cool enemies that, and the wolves are a great example because they had some variety. Sometimes they see you, sometimes they don't. Like that is one thing about the Souls games is that the enemies are so planted, defined like when you start, they're looking this direction, they're doing that.
And this game, they did a pretty good job of creating scenarios where you'll move through things, maybe a little faster, maybe a little slower, because there's enough dynamic happening in each battle with the characters and, uh, you know, how much damage you do, all this stuff, that it really does lead to a lot of different scenarios or outcomes where this wolf that didn't see you before in this similar battle now sees you and he's jumping up there and attacking you and because that happens, another wolf who's his like companion or somebody who hears you fighting him, he comes and like, there are some cool scenarios like that.
Um, they did a pretty good job with how they, uh, had the enemies positioned, how they act, where they go, what they're capable of. Like we mentioned earlier, the wolves being able to jump up 20 feet. That's not something that you expect. And when it happens, it kind of scares the shit out of you.
Joseph: You know, one thing I can say about the difficulty level is that this is one of those games where the pathway to the boss is harder than the boss.
Taylor: Yeah.
Joseph: Like I'm getting my ass kicked in this area right now. I don't like this area. I don't want to be in Umbral.
Taylor: Yeah.
00:31:56
Joseph: I think the game is doing that right. They're like keeping me out of Umbral because if you're there too long, those wizard Grim Reaper looking motherfuckers come out with red blades and I have not defeated one of those yet.
Taylor: Have you hit one? I mean, you barely do any damage to him.
Joseph: Dude, they are brutal.
Taylor: I haven't tried in a while, but yeah. And the fact that he just comes out, does a two bladed swipe on you, and then disappears doesn't make anything easier.
Joseph: Have you come across those, Willie?
Willie: Uh, yeah, with Taylor and once in my game. Are you talking about the one that just comes out when you get to, like, level three or whatever in the Umbral?
Joseph: I don't know. I don't-
Taylor: Yeah, that's gotta be it.
Joseph: -even know what to look for at levels.
Willie: The top right corner where the eyeball is, it's like a multiplier. It says-
Joseph: Mm. Okay.
Willie: -1. 1 when you first enter the Umbral, that number slowly goes up. Once it gets to two enemies are dropping way more runes or vigor, I guess that's what it's called, right?
Joseph: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Willie: But if that number gets to three, that shit comes out and you're dead. Like it doesn't matter. And I wonder if late game, you're supposed to be able to fuck with that guy, or it's always meant to scare you out of just get the fuck out of the Umbral because you're not supposed to be here this long.
Taylor: Oh, you can fuck with him for sure, man, because you can I've I've put some good hits on him before and it I will say that's one of the mysteries that kind of compelled me to keep going.
I want to get badass enough that I can kill this dude and see what the hell happens after that. Does he not come back anymore? Does he come back next time? Is it, I would say that would be the most disappointing. Say we played this until we actually murdered him and then another one pops out.
Joseph: Oh, for sure, man.
Taylor: I would just be so disappointed.
Joseph: That thing's just like a regular ass enemy, you know? Like, I bet we see even more wild shit if we get the multiplier to four.
Taylor: No, I don't, I don't think it goes any higher.
Willie: It doesn't go higher. I don't think.
Taylor: Yeah, that's, that's the max.
Joseph: Okay, maybe that is most...
Taylor: So that's why, that's what makes me-
Joseph: -demon.
Taylor: -think he's probably a permanent character where even if you kill him, maybe the multiplier, my thought is if we, if we were to kill him, the multiplier probably resets or it knocks you out of the Umbral or it takes you to another place that you've never been or something like that.
Joseph: Hmm.
Taylor: Because it seems like it'd be a pretty big uh, moment, because that guy is such a big part of the Umbral.
Joseph: One thing that is really cool about Umbral though, is that it gets more difficult, the longer you spend time there.
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Joseph: So it does create this sense of, I don't know, this tension. Like it gave me a lot of tension being in Umbral to like the point where I'm like sprinting-
Taylor: Yeah.
Joseph: -and is there a vestige I can get into to warp back into Axiom so that I don't get, I don't die and lose all my vigor. But that particular area I'm in right now, I was just like sprinting through the whole thing, running past enemies, trying to find a way out.
Taylor: Yes.
Joseph: No, I'm going to get destroyed. Like, there's no way because you're either going to get ganged up on and lose the numbers game or homeboy is going to come out and, you know, do his decapitation slice.
Taylor: And they were throwing enemies at you, at you out of the Umbral that you'd never seen in the game. [Joseph laughs] All those enemies, except for the Grim Reaper, I think, they exist in the normal realm. But, I mean, the little gargoyles that came out, if you, I don't know if you've seen those. It's like a small, four legged gargoyle that comes out and at... they're way more aggressive than any other enemy in that game, like they can fly, they can come at you with kicks, they can... they have a dash attack, like all this kind of stuff that I was not ready for when I first saw those.
And then there was also the, uh, like a, a fairy that comes out that's like a-
Joseph: Oh, right, right, right.
Taylor: -evil fairy type person and kind of badass there too. I thought that was an interesting choice.
Joseph: Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about.
00:35:33
Joseph: I fell so often in the Pilgrim's Perch.
Taylor: Oh.
Joseph: Going through all of that, I got knocked out so many times by everything it seemed.
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Joseph: Except for maybe the little ghouls.
Willie: I think I just really hate the platforming in this game.
Taylor: Yeah.
Willie: I'm so bad at it. I'm way worse at it than I am in Elden Ring or any other fucking game. I just think that the thing that bugs me the most is that you can't jump while you're just standing.
You just like can't jump straight up. That's not a thing. You have to like hit the stick forward and sprint and then jump or it just doesn't work. I'm glad that sprint is on the stick because that makes it better.
Joseph: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm..
Willie: Maybe, I don't know.
Joseph: Yeah, it does.
Willie: But I fucking miss the jumps so often, way more than I should.
Joseph: Yeah.
Willie: I think I'm just bad at games because of, because of how bad I am at jumping to a platform.
Taylor: That's a narrow margin to hit that thing. You have to really, really go to the edge of the platform you're on sprinting. And yeah, I agree with you. Like if you're going to make it that much of a platformer, thankfully, I haven't seen anything else like that other than that spot. But I mean, if you're going to have that much platforming, you better have a pretty good jump because there's nothing more annoying in one of these games than to keep falling off of something.
Joseph: Dude, that was happening to me.
Taylor: You got people shooting at you everywhere. And then, like you said, the Grim Reapers. They come out, they shoot heat seeking light balls that actually follow you. Like if they go past you, they'll try to double back. They won't completely do a J turn, but they will do an L turn and try to hit you like with a curve.
Joseph: You know, surprisingly, I think the, the the jumping and platforming in this game is better than Lies of P, which has a similar setup where you need to run and jump, but you can't jump freestanding. I found it easier in this game than, than Lies of P.
Taylor: I could see that.
Willie: I didn't at all, not even close because I think the jump in Lies of P is further.
Taylor: Hmm.
Willie: I've just missed so many jumps, not jumping far enough or jumping too early. And I guess sometimes you'll jump and you'll land and you roll for some reason. And I haven't figured out if it's because I held the button too long or something.
Taylor: Nah, it's height. If you fall long enough, it rolls, I think.
Willie: And yeah, then you'll just fucking roll off shit [Joseph and Taylor laugh] accidentally.
Joseph: Yeah, you could do that.
Taylor: Well, interestingly enough, they almost put a pseudo barrier in a lot of places where I've thought I was going to roll off and-
Joseph: Mm.
Taylor: -it stopped me. In the roll, it just stopped me until I completed the roll and then it does seem like they have a little bit of assistance in some places but not in others.
Willie: There apparently is a way to get the multiplier to 5. 4, someone said.
Taylor: Ooh.
Joseph: Oh, dang.
Willie: I see a video of it. I just don't know. I'm not listening to it so I didn't see how he did it.
Taylor: Seems like you would have to kill that guy to get forward. So you can run from him, you know if he comes up and you're sprinting he won't get you. He won't hit you and he'll go back under and he'll try to come up and get you again. If you keep running, he won't get you.
Like you can keep on doing it, but you couldn't take advantage of the three X multiplier. I don't think because every time you try to go hit somebody, he's going to come right out of the ground as soon as you're stopped and try to swipe you.
So I wonder if like, you've got to kill that guy or if he's keeps trying to hit you and you're in a location that you could just one shot every enemy. If you can time it right, maybe you can avoid him and keep hitting them or something, just some crazy game of whack a mole.
00:38:50
Joseph: The combat is decent.
Taylor: Yeah.
Joseph: You know, the dodging, the rolling, like, I feel like it's pretty responsive. I think the combat is maybe one of the better things about the game. Besides, like, when it gets, when it sucks because of, like, performance issues or bugs-
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Joseph: -those sorts of things. But I think the combat is pretty good.
Taylor: Yeah, they made good decisions on combat, giving you a moment of invulnerability in the rolls that seems fairly forgiving, things like that. Definitely a good choice.
Joseph: It's maybe the one thing that would actually convince me to keep playing. Cause for the most part, I don't know what this fucking game is about. You know, besides the story that I read on the website, which is like, there's this demon, Adyr, and he's like, decided to come back and fuck shit up.
And like, you're out to destroy him. That, to me, is the story.
Willie: And there's at least one or two characters who like, think it's a good idea for Adyr to come back.
Joseph: [laughing] Right. [Taylor laughs]
Willie: And my character that I'm playing is, I picked the Pyric Cultist, who is-
Joseph: Mm.
Willie: -a former worshipper of Adyr.
Taylor: Oh.
Willie: And I don't know how many endings there are, and if you can... if you could, you could let him come back, right? Or if you could like-
Joseph: Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Willie: -I'm not sure if that one of the versions is siding with the people who are like, yeah, we should let this guy come back [Taylor chuckles] and fuck up everything. Gets better. He brought order to this world that's chaotic. You know, like, I don't know if that's possible at all.
Joseph: Yeah, neither do I.
Willie: I guess I ask because it's really interesting that when you're giving an item to someone, the way it asks, it's, it's sort of like hand over this item to somebody. I forgot like the exact wording, but it's like-
Joseph: Or like do nothing.
Willie: -Or do nothing, right, yeah. So what if I didn't, what if I just didn't give this dude the shit that he asked me to go find? Does the game just stop advancing or-
Taylor: Hmm.
Willie: -I just don't get this guy's quest line?
Joseph: Or is it just canceling out of the dialogue and then when you come back, you have that same option presented again, where it's like, give it to them or don't?
Willie: Yeah, I don't know.
Joseph: Is there actually consequences associated with doing nothing? I never tried it. So I don't know.
Taylor: I saw people were definitely upset about the endings, how the endings work. And I think I understand correctly by reading it, but it sounded like one of them was, you basically had to go through without lighting a single vestige.
Joseph: Oh my gosh. [Taylor and Willie laugh]
Taylor: Something like that. I don't, I don't know if that's accurate, but there are three different endings, I believe. There's a, um... Umbral Effigy and Adyr and something else.
Joseph: For the everyday souls like gamer that fucking seems impossible.
Taylor: Yeah. I don't know if that was the case, but if it is that... you can bet your ass, I won't be doing it. [Willie chuckles]
Joseph: I was thinking about one, one thing I don't like about the game is when you're in Axiom and you're using the Umbral lamp, if the ghouls hit you, it like immediately transports-
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Joseph: -you into Umbral-
Taylor: Yep.
Joseph: -and then you're stuck there until you can get a vestige to travel back to Axiom. So I fucking hate that because every now and then you pull up your lamp and there's one right in front of you and you're just like swipe.
Taylor: Yeah-
Willie: Yeah.
Joseph: And all of a sudden you're in Umbral.
Taylor: -it's scary as shit too the first time they hit you because you're like, ah, motherfucker, I'm over here. You're not going to bop. Oh, okay. Well, I'm in here now. That's scary. Pretty cool touch.
Willie: What level are y'all right now? Do you know?
Joseph: I don't know. I don't know where it shows you just the straight up level for your character.
Taylor: It's the top left, it's the first thing in the character list over on the left side.
Joseph: I guess I never even really paid attention to it. I know my vigor is like like 20 and...
Taylor: I looked it up for this and it took me a good two minutes to find it and because there's so much information on that menu. Uh, but I'm level 60 right now, I think I just...
Joseph: What level are you, Willie, do you know?
Willie: 32. You get levels when you're in other people's game, but you still-
Joseph: Hmm.
Willie: -you don't get any progress, right? So, I'm pretty sure I was like, I don't know if I was overleveled for early stuff, but I definitely probably was a higher level than you going into like the first boss fight, because I already played the first boss fight and the second and the third or fourth-
Joseph: Hmm.
Willie: -with Taylor, by the time-
Taylor: Yeah.
Willie: -I started my own playthrough.
Joseph: Yeah, I'll have to go back and look. I never even really paid attention to an overall level for my character.
00:42:46
Taylor: What do y'all think about the choice to make you go pick up your souls? [chuckles] I hate it. I hate it so much.
Joseph: I mean, it's just like any other FromSoft game or Soulslike game.
Taylor: No, no, no, not when you die. I mean, anytime. If you kill, if you kill a character or kill a enemy. That little blue thing is your reward, the souls and I hate it [Willie chuckles] because there's no like okay with when you're within five feet or ten feet it'll come to you even. It's like you gotta run that over and if you don't you lose those. I hate that. Yeah, I don't know if there's a ring that helps.
Joseph: You can use the lamp to siphon it.
Taylor: Oh okay, okay. Well that's on me then. I was so sick of that, can you... do they siphon from a long ass ways?
Joseph: Yeah.
Taylor: Oh, man, I'm glad I brought that up and that you said that because that was one of the most annoying things, especially you'll start to notice it even more if you're doing farming runs-
Joseph: Mm.
Taylor: -doing the rounds because then you're like, oh, god, the big guy killed up there up on that mountain. [Joseph chuckling] His XP is still up there. I got to go get that and...
Joseph: Oh yeah, fuck that.
Taylor: Okay. Nice dude. That's going to improve.
Willie: I didn't notice until, I think the area just before the one y'all were talking about, the place where you are, Joey, it is a swamp area that I'm in, but I think it's just before, because I haven't seen the people on stilts yet, I don't think.
Joseph: Yeah, I think it's Forsaken Fen is the, is the area, and it's somewhere in the Forsaken Fen, I think.
Willie: I mean, I am there, and maybe I just haven't been to that section, because I did get lost, and that's why I stopped, because I was just like, I made a big loop and found two different shortcuts, and neither of them took me to where I was supposed to go.
I was very confused.
Joseph: Did you defeat the Congregator of Flesh?
Willie: Yep.
Joseph: Okay, it's like not too far after that.
Willie: You go into one area and you have to fucking get rid of the swamp to like, be able to walk around in the first section basically, or in one of the first sections in there. I walked around in there and I unlocked two different shortcuts like, on opposite sides of the first vestige, and I ultimately just didn't know where to go.
This is where I stop, I guess, because I don't, I don't need to keep doing this.
Joseph: Yeah, you kind of get your ass beat if you're just exploring like that.
Taylor: Yeah.
Joseph: Like, that's what's happening to me. I'm like, man, I know there's a path through here, but I got to go check this little area first and die. And now like, okay, I cleared that.
Now I got to go this way and die. Cleared that.
Willie: Well, I did that. And like I said, I, I like unlocked two shortcuts on the opposite sides of that vestige to like, that took you both back to the vestige. And it was like, I don't know which direction I'm actually supposed to go.
Joseph: Probably a third unrelated-
Willie: Yeah.
Joseph: -direction.
Taylor: Mm hmm.
Willie: But anyway, in that section, I didn't realize until I got to that point, that sometimes when you die, that you do have to kill the enemy to get your shit back.
Taylor: Mm.
Joseph: Oh, right, right, to get your vigor back.
Willie: Your vigor back. I didn't realize that it was, like, stored with the enemy that did it.
Joseph: I didn't either, and I think that's only happened to me one time.
Willie: Yeah, cause it's, it's, it doesn't always happen, right? Cause sometimes it's just on the ground.
Joseph: Mm hmm, mm hmm.
Willie: I don't know what the difference is. I don't know why... Maybe it's because they kills you in the Umbral? I'm not a hundred percent certain.
Joseph: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what dictates whether or not it drops on the ground or you have to defeat that enemy to get that back.
Taylor: Now that you're saying that, I think that's exactly what's going on because I dropped, I dropped some right before this, I was playing some, and I dropped something in the Umbral because there was a couple of those wolves ganged up on me real fast and I dropped it. So that makes sense.
Willie: Yeah.
00:46:07
Joseph: Man, long story short. I don't think I could play through 30 bosses in this game.
Taylor: Is that how many there are?
Joseph: I think so. I have a list pulled up and I just kind of like roughly counted it, but I've defeated six, which are like two main bosses and then four like field bosses. And that's through the Congregator of Flesh. And that's like barely a fourth of this list.
I don't think I could-
Taylor: Damn.
Joseph: -play this game enough before Shadow of the Erdtree to even get through these bosses.
Taylor: I feel like without co op, that's what, I think that's the biggest thing that will turn me off of this game, is the fact that I can't find any multiplayer, because all the bosses, like you said, so far they've seemed totally doable.
The main thing is, I'll have my one person that I summoned in, and then I won't have anybody else. And every time that I fail against the boss, my thought is if I had one other person here with me, this would be fucking simple. Like it would be so easy, but I can't summon anybody. So I think that's going to be the ultimate failing of it for me is when I get to that boss or I may be at it now that I can't summon anybody in or get anybody to help me.
And, uh, I'm not going to sit there and bang my head against the wall. Like if it were an Elden Ring, if it were a Souls, if it were perfected and just smooth as butter, maybe I'll hang in there and try to do it, but I think there's it's so middle ground of good bad for me that that multiplayer is pretty damning. If I can't find somebody to play with, especially at random, then I'm probably not going to hang in there.
Joseph: I have a co op question. When you summon in a friend. Do you have like unlimited range on the game or can you only play with each other during like boss fights?
Taylor: Yeah, you can play in the areas but range wise it really will pull you to the host. There is a tether or something that-
Joseph: Oh, if you like get far...too far away from each other?
Taylor: -if you get far enough away it'll pull you, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Willie: That's another weird thing because there were times where I think you had something to do and I was just in the game with you and I like went off on my own and killed some enemies and it would pull me back to you, but then if I like ran again after clearing those enemies and ran past them, I could get further and further each time.
Joseph: Huh.
Willie: And I don't know why. I don't know if it was just the amount of time that I was away from you that was the-
Joseph: Hmm.
Willie: -issue actually-
Taylor: Oh.
Joseph: Hmm.
Willie: -or the distance. Like, I think it's just the time.
Joseph: Interesting.
Taylor: Hmm. Okay, that makes sense, because it does a countdown when it warps you.
Willie: Yeah.
Taylor: Okay, yeah.
Willie: At any vestige-
Joseph: Oh, really.
Willie: - like literally, you can always bring somebody in pretty much. As soon as you get to the first vestige, you can call somebody in.
Joseph: Yeah, I remember seeing a message about it. Yeah, okay, that makes sense.
Willie: And so, yeah, you can just play through the whole area, but it does like other Souls games where only the host is keeping progress.
Taylor: And it's unfortunate that that's a problem because like the way they did the multiplayer seems great to me, the way that, okay, you die both of you go back to the fire. It's not like it-
Willie: Right.
Taylor: -separates you. You've got to come back in. And to me, I, you know, starting it. I said, this is a no brainer. This is gonna be great. They made multiplayer super simple and easy for you to get into, but sadly not the case.
Willie: That it... was a super like cool thing that like you don't have to resummon if you die. Like if the host dies.
Joseph: That's good. If the guest dies, you just watch.
Taylor: Mm-Hmm.
Willie: If the host dies, then yeah, it resets at the vestige and you're back playing again. It's like not a problem, but-
Joseph: But you're not disconnected.
Willie: -you're not disconnected and have to resummon, which is good because the summoning doesn't always work, apparently, because like Taylor said, we tried playing together a second or third time, and it just like wasn't doing it.
Taylor: Mm-uhh. Hard no.
Joseph: I wonder if Elden Ring is better now, because we had a lot of trouble summoning in Elden Ring, too. I wonder if that's all squared away now.
Taylor: That's a good question.
Willie: I don't know.
Joseph: Like, specifically at some of the boss fights.
Willie: Yeah, like, at the summoning pool itself.
Joseph: Yeah.
Taylor: Might have to get in there and find out. That might be the ultimate. [laughs]
Joseph: [chuckles] Yeah.
Taylor: Maybe this has just primed me and got me ready.
Willie: I'm ready whenever you are. Just an update on my progress before we close out. I'm at the end of the game again. I'm at like Farum Azula.
Joseph: Oh, wow.
Willie: I beat the Godskin duo yesterday or the day before. I actually probably could have been done like 20 hours ago, but I was like, you know what, I'm going to get everybody's quest line to like the point of no return before I finish the game.
So I've spent like the last, 10 hours or so, probably like 10 to 15 hours, like going to clean up everybody's quest line.
Taylor: Damn, that's cool.
Willie: I got the rune from Fia. I got the rune from Dung Eater. I got the rune from Ranni. I got every quest line to the point of completion, except for the one that I'm doing.
Taylor: Hmm.
Willie: I think I'm going to do the Golden Order ending for this one with the Gold Mask. But I just spent the last, like, I don't know, probably like 10 plus hours. Completing a bunch of quest lines to make sure that I didn't get locked out when that, that moment in Elden Ring hits that's kind of the point of no return.
Joseph: Yeah. Hmm. Maybe we should hop in some Elden Ring.
Taylor: Yeah, this has kind of gotten me, you know, you want it to be good, but it's not quite what you're wanting. Um, that definitely started making me think, making me think about how robust an adventure Elden Ring was and how much it had. And how everything was so freakin polished and beautiful and...
Joseph: It's fuckin masterful, dude. It is a fuckin masterpiece.
00:51:13
Willie: I will say, like, it's... is my closing sort of on this game. Like, It is interesting and the concept is interesting. The lamp, while it does sort of seem gimmicky to me, it is a super interesting twist on things. Just the whole peering into another dimension to see a land bridge that you can't cross adds a dimension to the gameplay that is cool.
It's interesting and makes it a little more challenging. I think right now it's just not what I want. So it's not quite enough to like hook me in.
Joseph: I like the game enough to continue playing, but it is taking a clear backseat to Elden Ring. Like, I would play it with you, Taylor, like, if you wanted to hop in still.
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Joseph: Because I haven't tried co op, I would definitely run through and try to bash some shit.
Taylor: I think with proper multiplayer going on, we would just be able to steamroll through a bunch of stuff. Especially if it was three of us, we could probably destroy that game pretty quickly and easily.
Willie: I don't think you can do three players, can you?
Taylor: Oh, really? It's only-
Willie: No.
Taylor: -I haven't even tried it.
Willie: I think it's only two, which is the other reason I kind of don't give a shit about playing this together-
Taylor: Oh, damn.
Willie: -because I don't think you could do.
Taylor: Yeah.
Willie: We'd have to do, and we'd do this with Elden Ring too. If we were playing bosses together, like we would take turns doing them, right?
Taylor: Yeah.
Willie: Like, we'd each host to do a thing. But, it's not enough for me. Like, I would go help you beat the game, but I don't give a shit if I beat the game. I guess-
Joseph: Yeah.
Willie: -is where I am.
Taylor: Yeah. I feel like I'd feel the same way. My thoughts on it are show me their second game. If they iterate on this and they make a second one and they fix a lot of this stuff, make it way less buggy, maybe up that multiplayer to three.
I would want to play it. I'd want to check it out. I don't think I would pay a full 60, 70 bucks for it, but if it came to Game Pass or something like that, I would definitely want to check it out and see like what they've got, the foundation is there for something good, but there's just a lot of hiccups along the way.
Joseph: I would say I'm glad I didn't pay for this game-
Taylor: Mm, yeah.
Joseph: -however, you know, full price. I'm glad I didn't pay full price for it-
Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Joseph: -but I am enjoying it enough to probably continue playing. Willie was definitely uphill battle playing so much Elden Ring concurrently that this game just kind of is trash next to Elden Ring.
Taylor: Yeah.
Willie: Like it's not nearly, it doesn't even get close to competing with that game. So-
Taylor: Yep.
Joseph: -I'm not surprised that all of Willie's comments like come with a lot of resistance and the mechanics and gameplay and stuff like that. It's hard to enjoy as much when you have that direct comparison that, you know, you could go back to and spend time there.
And it just feels like time much more well spent-
Taylor: Hard agree.
Joseph: -but I think I like it a little bit more because I haven't really been as, I just haven't been dedicated to Elden Ring lately, so...
Taylor: When is that DLC dropping?
Willie: The 21st.
Taylor: Of this month?
Willie: Yes.
Taylor: Oh, yeah.
Joseph: Come on, man. You know this.
Taylor: We better do what we're gonna do.
Willie: We're gonna date this episode, but it's 10 days away right now.
Joseph: Yeah, man.
Taylor: That is awesome. I guess I'm gonna have to hop back in there. We got no choice.
Joseph: Yeah, dude. By the time, by the time everyone hears this, it will be out.
Willie: We will already be playing it when you hear us talking about this right now.
Taylor: Mm.
Willie: We'll already be playing Elden Ring DLC.
Taylor: I guess we know what we're going to be talking about in the near future then.
Willie: [chuckles] Yeah. [Taylor chuckling]
Joseph: Right now, this second, we could be playing-
Willie: We're probably playing right now.
Joseph: -Probably playing right now.
Taylor: You could be playing instead of listen... Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, no, no. [Joseph chuckling] Keep listening. Keep listening.
Willie: Yeah, definitely keep listening-
Joseph: Listen first and then play.
Willie: -we appreciate it. I was just looking back at my playtime and somehow it's doubled since the last time I looked. I know my save file says like 7 hours-
Taylor: Hmm.
Willie: -but like in the Xbox app on my computer it now says 14.3 hours.
Joseph: Hmm.
Willie: And yet last night when I checked it said 7.
Taylor: Sounds like they're trying to count hours that it's in standby.
Willie: Yeah, I don't know what's going on.
Joseph: Maybe there was like some weird delay.
Willie: Maybe, but the save file itself says 7.13. I wrote that down. I looked at the save. I like went to load-
Joseph: I didn't even see where it shows you in game.
Willie: Just from the main screen. If you go to load instead-
Joseph: Ohh.
Willie: -of go to continue-
Joseph: Oh.
Willie: -it'll show you like what the save file has in it. And I guess that's possible, but I don't think I played seven hours with Taylor.
Joseph: Maybe just recheck the save file. Maybe that is actually different.
Willie: Maybe. Anyway, this game is supposed to take 30 hours to complete according to like main story only-
Taylor: [laughs] I'm like 30 or 40 hours in.
Joseph: This game would take me way longer than 30 hours.
Taylor: [laughing] Yeah.
Willie: -and 94 hours for completionist-
Taylor: Woah.
Willie: -according to How Long To Beat.
Taylor: That's a big difference.
Willie: Anyway, if you got the money, if you like souls likes probably worth checking out, it is interesting.
Taylor: Especially Game Pass, man.
Willie: Yeah.
Taylor: Like I, like so many games-
Joseph: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Taylor: -it's worth checking out if you already got the pass and you're just, you like these types of games, give it a shot-
Willie: Yeah.
Taylor: -check it out, join my multiplayer- [Willie laughs]
Joseph: Agree-
Taylor: -cause nobody else will. [laughs]
Joseph: -and agree and agree.
[Outro theme begins to fade in - Caribbean Arcade by Christian Nanzell
Willie: But, uh, yeah, thank you for listening to us talk about this game. I couldn't even say the name, [Joseph chuckling] Lords of the Fallen. [Joseph and Taylor laugh] I always want to put a "The" in front of it, [chuckles] so I'm like, wait, hold on, is it The Lords of the Fallen? It's not. It's Lords of the Fallen.
Joseph: Lords of the Fallen.
Willie: Thank you, uh, for checking this out and, uh, we'll see you again.
Taylor: Appreciate y'all.
Joseph: Peace y'all. See y'all next time.
Taylor: Take her easy.
Joseph: Later.
Taylor: Later.
[Outro theme continues - Caribbean Arcade by Christian Nanzell]
00:56:04
Joseph: Berries and Blades is an independent podcast created by Joseph Bullard, Willie Garza, and Taylor Garratt. Thanks for tuning in, and consider subscribing if you enjoyed listening to this episode. You can also support us by telling your friends about the show, and we hope to see you in the next episode of Berries and Blades. Until then, thanks again.
[Outro theme fades out - Caribbean Arcade by Christian Nanzell]
Joseph: He's not Goggins, is he?
Willie: Ye...yeah.
Taylor: Oh, David, David Goggins? Is that it?
Joseph: No, it's not..
Taylor: Steven Goggins?
[Joseph and Taylor laughing]
Willie: Uh.
Taylor: Oh no, David Goggins-
Joseph: Walter?
Taylor: -is the inspirational jogger guy.
Willie: Walter.
Taylor: Walton Goggins.
Willie: That makes sense, I think.
Taylor: Or something like that. There we go.