Berries & Blades

Boss Fights Worth Fighting

Episode Summary

Madeline vs. Badeline, Batman vs. Mr. Freeze, and Sahelantro-what? Join us for a conversation about six different boss fights we thought were memorable and worth fighting to this day.

Episode Notes

Madeline vs. Badeline, Batman vs. Mr. Freeze, and Sahelantro-what? Join us for a conversation about six different boss fights we thought were memorable and worth fighting to this day.

In this episode, we take on the challenge of making a list of boss fights we think are worth remembering. Willie starts with Batman: Arkham City, talks about stealth attacks and recaps the fight against Mr. Freeze. Later in the episode, he brings up the brilliance of Hideo Kojima and the Psycho Mantis boss fight from Metal Gear Solid. Taylor has fun talking about the most ridiculous-sounding boss—Sahelanthropus—from Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain and remembers rage quitting because of the gigantic Ancient Dragon from Dark Souls 2. Joseph talks about the biggest, toughest MF from Gears of War—General RAAM—and highlights Madeline's fight against a Part of Her and how it's a turning point in the game, Celeste. Also, "I've got it. Use the Controller Port!! Plug your Controller into Controller port 2."

Here's the full transcript for this episode. It includes links to some of the videos we watched during this episode.

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Episode Transcription

00:00:00

[Alienated by ELFL plays in background]

Willie: Now I'll read more deeply into your soul. And he says, I can see your mind. And he starts, uh, he starts telling you Konami games that you like.

Joseph: Are you serious?

[Taylor laughing]

Willie: Because he's, he's reading your memory card for shit [Taylor chuckles] and he'll just start saying shit like- [Taylor chuckles]

Joseph: Ah, get outta here.

Willie: -Oh, so you like Azure Dreams or you like Castlevania, don't you?

Joseph: Wow!

[Taylor laughing]

Willie: And if you've got those saves on there, it'll just tell you that shit.

Taylor: That was so funny when it happens too.

Joseph: Dude, that's...that's pretty awesome.

Willie: And he's like, I can see you enjoy role playing games. Like, if that's the kind of games that you have saved on there, whatever.

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Willie: And then he like tells you, basically if you've saved less than three times, he's like, I see you haven't saved often.

Joseph: No shit.

Willie: He's like, you're somewhat reckless. Or like, he'll say something else if you've gone over three saves. Some shit about, just like your playstyle.

Joseph: This is fucking brilliant, dude.

Willie: He's like, I can read you like an open book.

Taylor: Yeah. That's why people love Kojima so much.

Joseph: [chuckles] Yeah, it's great.

Taylor: Still from that area, that was genius.

Willie: And then he's like, he's like, well, I'm going to show you my psychokinetic power, basically. And he's like, put your controller on the floor, like lay it flat in front of you. And he's like, there's like a effect on the screen and then your controller on the floor starts shaking, right? Because he's like fucking with your controller.

And basically after that, he's like, alright, this demonstration is over and, and you get into the fight.

[Alienated by ELFL fades out]

[Intro theme plays - Tiger Tracks by Lexica]

00:01:39

Joseph: What's up? Welcome to Berries and Blades. Thanks for joining us for a casual conversation about video games. My name is Joseph, and I'm here with my friends, Willie and Taylor. And we're just three regular guys who are terrified for what's to come in the month of September. But, I digress. So what's going on this week?

Taylor: Oh, you must be referring to the time in which I ignore the rest of my life for Starfield. [Joseph laughs] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very fearful and excited about September. But yes, nah man, I just been, uh, living it up, uh, down all the AI holes and, uh, ready to talk about some games.

Joseph: Ugh.

Taylor: I've emerged.

Joseph: [laughs] That's funny you used the word emerge because that word has been on my mind lately because of this episode. A form of that word at least.

Taylor: Hmm.

Willie: Interesting. Some Gears of Wars he's going to talk about today. [Joseph and Taylor laughing]

Taylor: Yeah. Oh, dang.

Joseph: Yeah, emergence. What about you, Willie?

Willie: Man, I've been playing Final Fantasy VII, the remake, the last week, I guess.

Joseph: For real?

Willie: Barbara had started a long time ago and picked it back up again recently. And then I think last weekend, maybe sometime last week or something like that.

She was like, hey, I'm going to play this game. Do you want to, you want to help, trade off or whatever, whenever we get to bosses or whatever? So we've just been playing until we die and then handing off the controller and then doing the same thing.

Joseph: Nice.

Willie: So we're pretty far into that right now. I think we got like forty-eight, forty-nine hours in or something.

Joseph: Oh shit.

Taylor: That's probably about where I made it. That's such a good game. Such a good remake. It's beautiful.

Willie: Yeah, it's definitely very beautiful.

Taylor: Dude. That first time you look up at the pizza pie in the sky, so cool. [laughs] They really did a giant service to that game to bring it back like that and just make it feel like you're playing an absolutely brand new game, same kind of core and feel.

Joseph: I haven't played anything new in the last couple days, so let's jump into the episode. In today's episode we're going to share thoughts about some of the boss fights we think are worth remembering, but there are no rules or guidelines, so it can pretty much be any kind of boss we can think of. Could be a tutorial boss, final boss, mid game boss, mini game boss.

Also, we thought it was overwhelming trying to narrow down these options, so we'll probably do some more of these episodes in the future, since there are so many good boss fights to talk about, period. Anyway, Willie, you have a good boss fight you can kick things off with?

00:04:00

Willie: Yeah, I think so. I think before I even get into that, I think we should preface this with a spoiler warning-

Joseph: For sure. [Joseph and Taylor laugh]

Willie: Because I don't think there's any way we're going to get into this and not spoil some shit. Maybe we start by saying what game it's from, just to uh, give people a second to shut it off real fast if they need to.

Joseph: Yeah, that sounds good.

Taylor: Good call.

Willie: And for me, for my first one, I was, I have a few in mind, but I was trying to figure out, do I want to do something that probably everyone has talked about before or not? And I probably will. I think I'm going to use one of the iconic ones. I'm going to leave it out there for this first round though.

And I'll say. For my first one, I'm going to take something from, I'm going to take something from Arkham City, the, uh, Mr. Freeze fight.

Joseph: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Taylor: Ooh, yeah.

Willie: I don't know if anyone was thinking about that one, but I feel like that one is, that one's worth talking about.

Joseph: I feel like I don't remember enough about that fight.

Taylor: Yeah. Same.

Willie: I thought about it and then like had to go back and like watch it and think about some of the strategies and stuff in it. And I never played it on like the harder settings, but one of the, the coolest thing, the whole setup about it is that you have to change your tactics in that entire fight because Mr. Freeze adapts to what you're doing.

Joseph: Hmm. Okay. Okay.

Willie: Arkham City, like the other Arkham games uses a lot of stealth combat, right? Like you can just go straight up, head to head with people and fight them. And you do that a lot, but Mr. Freeze is not an enemy you can do that to. Like you'll die very quickly if you try to take him head on.

So you have to use stealth takedowns, but every time you use a stealth takedown, he closes off that avenue. So if you are hiding in the grates and take him out. You'll like pummel on him, drop him. He falls over, right? And then as he gets back up, you have to run away so he doesn't see you. And then he'll ice over the grates.

So you can't use the grates anymore. He says all kinds of things, but I guess what happens early on in that fight is the Oracle calls in and tells you, oh, I hacked into his suit so you can like, see what he's, he's thinking or what his suit is telling him.

Taylor: Hmm.

Willie: And so like, it'll say like searching for target Batman or whatever. As soon as you knock him down, he stands up and he starts shooting the ice at stuff. It'll be like neutralizing environmental threat. And he does that every time. And he always quips about it. Like, I don't know. I think one of my wrote down was like, I can evolve my practice, can you? Or like, I will not allow you to do that again.

Like he just says he like just quip something very quickly after each one. So if you're listening to him, you can tell he's doing it. But if you're paying attention to the screen and what his suit is doing, every single time. So if you jump off a rail, he'll like freeze that part of the rail. So you can't use it anymore.

And he's basically just icing over the entire room.

Taylor: Hmm.

Joseph: Is that how he adapts? It's always like by freezing stuff.

Willie: Yeah. So like each different type of environmental takedown you could do, he'll just take it out, if you try to use it. So like the gargoyles in there, I guess that's what those things are, are sort of-

Taylor: Yeah.

Willie: -that, you know, you can stand on hovering over the field.

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Taylor: Sconces or whatever.

Joseph: I remember why I don't remember this fight because I didn't fucking play it.

Willie: Okay. [Joseph and Willie chuckle]

Joseph: I think I saw some gameplay from it, but I was just watching back through a little piece.

Taylor: It was a pretty short fight too. I mean, it was a main mission, but it wasn't, it was just like whenever you were meeting up with them.

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Willie: Yeah. Again, I don't, I don't think I ever played it on one of the harder levels, but like the harder settings, difficulty settings. But if you play it on more difficulty settings, you have to hit him more times, right? So you have to do more, varied types of takedowns to take him out. Because you literally can't really get hits on him if you're not doing stealth takedowns.

Joseph: Mm.

Willie: So sometimes you gotta jump off the rail, sometimes you gotta come out the grate, sometimes you gotta be standing on the other side of the wall and jump through the glass, sometimes you gotta use your sticky bomb or whatever-

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Willie: Other times you gotta use your, like what is it, you have like this remote electrical charge that you can shoot at the wall and it'll turn on this basically electromagnet on the wall to pull him towards it. But every time you do any of those takedowns, he'll cut off that route. So you can't do it again.

Joseph: So the harder the difficulty level, the more of like a mix up game you have to play.

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: That's interesting. So you just can't straight up beat'em down?

Willie: No, everytime-

Joseph: What does he do to keep you from, from doing that?

Willie: I mean, he'll shoot you with his fucking freeze ray and shit. And he's also just got, I don't know what his other, if he has another weapon at that time that fucks you up. But like by doing stealth takedowns, you basically take down his defenses of his suit and then you'll just like punch him a bunch of times until he falls over.

And then as soon as he like, you'll hear his suit charging back up and it says something like, oh, it just says like reinitializing systems or something. And if you're not like out of his line of sight, he will just fuck you up. You're just not going to survive if you take too many of those hits quickly. And he's just got a lot of health.

Joseph: Interesting. Taylor, did you play that fight or fight Mr. Freeze?

Taylor: Yeah. Oh yeah. Nice. That was actually one of the only Batman games that I completed out of that series, I think I, I played multiples and enjoyed them, but that one was the only one that I made it to the final boss and made it out.

00:08:52

Joseph: How's the voice acting for Mr. Freeze?

Willie: It's good. And I wish I remembered who it was and I just don't. I don't know right now and I should've looked it up. Probably have that window open still somewhere, but it's good. I really like it.

It's definitely like a... it plays into some of the same tropes you would see other places, right? Because the reason you're talking to Mr. Freeze at all is, Joker has taken his wife and is holding her hostage. He's trying to get back to her or get her back. So he ends up turning on you to say, basically, like, if I can deliver you to the Joker, then like, maybe I'll get my wife back. But you don't, you beat his ass and then uh, and then he's like we need to get back at the Joker.

It's kind of fucking ridiculous. Like you you beat his ass and then, he developed an antidote to what's going on with you and Joker in that game. So, you go to check the safe where he just put it like five minutes ago before the fight And it's gone and he's like, Harley Quinn must've, must've taken it. [Taylor laughs]

Joseph: Magic!

Willie: And we really got to get the Joker back. We need to go get that clown. You got to right what's been wronged to both of us. And it's like, you motherfucker.

Joseph: [chuckling] Oh wow.

Taylor: [laughing] If we weren't doing this, then...

Willie: I just did all this shit for you and came here, trusted you. You turned your back on me and now you're like, oh, I need your help. We need to take this dude out.

Joseph: Dang.

Willie: Yeah, it's really well done. And that fight's just. It's definitely interesting just because yeah, you have to vary your attacks up.

Joseph: I think that's what I remember or the reason I remember people loving that boss fight was that you had to mix it up in that way. So it was the variety I think for the boss fight.

00:10:23

Joseph: That's cool though. I like it like this. Uh, we were talking about AI before we started recording and that that's the first thing that popped in my head is like this AI learning for the boss. That's just like shutting things down.

Taylor: Yeah, it's going to be terrifying when that happens. We've only dealt with such rudimentary AI and it's just, it's not even really AI to some extent.

Um, it's almost like a basic machine learning, I think that's happening there with, with bosses. And it's so conditioned to, you know, here's the last level, here's what's happening. Like I am just terrified of the first game, that it really has somebody, some monster or bad guy or whatever can come from anywhere, at any time.

Prey had aspects of that, you know, where, where the, the scary things would go turn themselves into different items, but there was nothing that was, that could move freely through the game or through the level-

Joseph: Mm-hmm. Dude, that would be sick.

Taylor: -as it wanted to. It would be.

Joseph: If you could, if you could face like a really tough boss in a game, but where it, where and when it happened was the thing that could change.

Taylor: I would want it to be totally randomized. Like, literally, you could start that level, come out of an elevator, and whoever it is, they're waiting for you and kills you [chuckling] right there on the spot-

Joseph: Yeah, that's wild.

Taylor: -you know, imagine. Yeah, that would be. Anyways.

Joseph: How would you get around having the right equipment, the right skill set-

Taylor: I think that's it, dude.

Joseph: -being over the right level to fight, like, a really tough boss at basically any point in the game?

Taylor: You've seen how that's already a culture right now in, uh, streaming, with streamers. You'll have people just facing impossible odds and that's why people watch them is because they do that. And sometimes they pull it off or a lot of times they pull it off. They're like really extremely talented professional gamers and they can make it happen.

I think that there'd be a desire for that for sure.

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Taylor: People just like, hey, anything could happen right now. And once you started adding parameters in there, like. Not only it was a big bad that was coming for you, like say it was the boss, maybe the boss could be anything. Maybe the boss could be one of 100 different things or 1000, or maybe the boss is a generated thing that is based on some generation prompt that's like, I want you to be terrifying. Absolutely horrifying. So you don't know if it's going to be a little girl that's like walking backwards with broken bones, or if it's going to be like a big, like tentacle monster and hell, it could adapt to you. Eventually it will be, it'll say, hey, oh, this thing really scared them earlier.

So let's do another one of these, but a variation, or they didn't care about this at all. Did bother them whatsoever. So don't make another one of those. Let's try one of these. And, uh, you're talking about a real scary thing that I'll probably, would never be able to play, in fact, now, the more I talk about it.

Joseph: I like the idea of within reason because like the-

Taylor: Yeah.

Joseph: -at least the, the kind of like changeling aspect of the boss being like things that are unexpected or generated on the spot is that I feel like quality gets sacrificed, like it becomes a Phasmophobia. You know, where the graphics aren't great because it's not like a predefined, pre rendered boss.

Taylor: Yeah.

Joseph: The quality could take a hit, but you would benefit from like, at least what you were mentioning streaming, like the entertainment of that.

Taylor: Oh yeah.

Joseph: People streaming that type of game online and their audience and followers staying entertained because of the reactions to the game.

Taylor: Absolutely. And, and that's one of those things where it's just going to have to come along. Like we've seen all the generative types of AI. We've seen them come so far.

It'll, we're probably still a couple or a few years away from that, but it's, it's crazy to think that even between now and then, there will be plenty of games as soon as Steam starts allowing them on the store. The last I saw a week or two ago was that they were not allowing games that had any kind of like advanced A. I. or G. P. T. or anything running in them.

Joseph: You know what I just thought about, you know, generative art projects?

Taylor: Mm-hmm.

Joseph: That could be a way they treated the bosses. So like it's, it's a boss, but a boss you're expecting, but the generative part is like the weapon set or the move set.

Taylor: Right.

Joseph: Like that's the thing that could be swapped out and like generated on the fly, but it's the same boss.

Taylor: Yeah.

Joseph: So like maybe, you know, it has like a fucking rocket launcher as an arm in one person's game, but then in another person's game, it's like a katana arm or some shit, you know, which changes the gameplay.

Taylor: Yeah. That kind of generation is a little bit, um, more easy to manifest too, because it's, it's more like, uh, NFT creation-

Joseph: Exactly.

Taylor: -or something like that where, where you, yeah, you've got kind of presets. These are all the heads. These are all the...

Joseph: Yeah. I feel like you can maintain more quality that way because it's not as sophisticated and...

Taylor: Yeah, but there's also, I think that that is for a, for a better overall experience. Whereas the other way is somebody like me would prefer. I want to see what kind of-

Joseph: Yeah, yeah.

Taylor: -Hellish. Ridiculousness [Joseph and Taylor laugh] that it can create. And that may be one of those things where maybe that's just one of the characters or bosses in the game is like, hey... I mean, you could really promote it on that, like that, we've got one thing in here that you're going to have to fight, that is completely, you know? How many people is that going to bring in?

It's nothing. It's something you've never seen before. You know, souls bosses ain't got nothing on this. Like it could be whatever, I can't even...

Joseph: Imagine Fromsoft, pulling off some shit like that.

Taylor: Oh, yeah. They're take on something like that. Yeah, because, because they do have a type set.

Willie: Yeah, they definitely just mix and match some shit to make their enemies. [laughs]

Joseph: Yeah. [laughs]

[Taylor laughs]

Willie: Yeah, like the Revenant dude.

Taylor: Yeah, yeah, exactly. This is, you know, this boss has got titties on its head or whatever. [Joseph laughs]

And this one is...

Joseph: Yeah, that's good.

00:16:05

Willie: I have to ask real quick before we move on from the game actually. Um, did you listen to any of that clip Joey when you were watching that fight? I guess you, I guess you didn't actually, right? If you asked about the voice acting.

Joseph: Uh, are you, no, I was watching it on mute just a second ago.

Willie: Okay.

Joseph: Did you find out who it is?

Willie: Yeah, I don't actually know. I'm, I'm sad because I don't know how to say it. I want to say it's Maurice Lamarche, but I don't think that that's actually right. I think it's Maurice Lamarche, but I was wondering if you listened to it, because apparently it's also the voice of Brain in Animaniacs or in Pinky and the Brain. [chuckles]

Joseph: Oh, shit.

Taylor: Oh, wow. That's cool.

Willie: Also, Big Bob in Hey, Arnold!

Taylor: It's also not crazy. You know, like once people were in the actor's guild with voice acting, I feel like you are set if you don't mess it up because it seems like if a person's in one thing, they're in a dozen things or hundreds of things. Some of those people do so much work.

Willie: Yeah, for sure.

Taylor: And are so many voices you love.

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Taylor: It's wild. That's dream territory right there. That'd be really cool.

Willie: But I definitely, I wouldn't have guessed that from listening to that fight and maybe I need to go back and, and listen to it again.

Joseph: I just found a video that doesn't have some kind of commentary or voiceover. So I'm listening for it now.

Willie: Yeah. During the fight, like I said, he's, he's just got quips throughout.

Taylor: I'm still trying to make up my mind about mine, but I think I'm 95%.

Willie: I have to do it in just a second. Unless Joey wants to go first.

Joseph: I can go first. Give Taylor a little bit more time.

Taylor: No, no, I don't mind. I, I'm gonna, I'm definitely gonna pick the one I'm gonna pick here, but...

Joseph: Okay, okay.

Taylor: It was a toss up between two bosses from actually two of the same series of games.

Joseph: Aw, shit. Incest happening. No, I'm kidding.

Taylor: Wait. Hahaha. [Joseph laughing] Wait a second. [laughs]

00:17:49

Joseph: Uh, alright, well why don't you pull one of them out right now?

Taylor: All right, so I had to harken back to Metal Gear Solid with their crazy boss fights and-

Joseph: Ooh.

Taylor: -Uh, should I, should I throw out who it was between or just go right into the one?

Joseph: What game is it?

Taylor: So the one that I chose is Metal Gear Solid 5, and the one that it was between that and the other one was Metal Gear Solid 4 and, uh, the Liquid Ocelot fight-

Willie: Sure.

Taylor: Which is, I'll bring that up at another time, but absolutely one of the most ridiculous boss fights in history. [Joseph chuckles] Maybe that'll be a different, a different episode where we're just talking about straight up ridiculous boss fights, because wow.

So if we're just talking about straight up crazy boss fights or ones that we really enjoyed, then I chose Sahelanthropus from the Phantom Pain from. Metal Gear 5 and, uh, so that's the moment I'm going to give you because if you haven't seen this boss and you're playing that game and you don't want spoilers then...

Joseph: Dude, I haven't seen this boss.

Taylor: So Sahelanthropus is essentially Metal Gear 5 was a total different thing. It was, it was Metal Gear. It was all the cool things you love about it, but it was in an open world. And so, you could drive vehicles, you even had this cool robot that would come around and help you, and you could jump on it and you could ride it across the desert.

It had so many cool things going for it and, no giants though. No giants until you get to maybe the 80% mark in the game. You're towards the end and all of a sudden you complete this mission that you're on and this gigantic robot stands up and it is, it's the biggest boss I think I've ever seen in an open world game that I can think of for sure.

Cause it is massive. Maybe a hundred stories or something like

Joseph: What is it's name?

Taylor: Sahelanthropus, it's the most ridiculous name of a boss ever too, and it's basically...

Joseph: I don't even know what to type dude, to find it. [Willie and Joseph laugh]

Taylor: Yeah, S A H E L A... just look for uh, Metal Gear Solid V, the mech boss, mech boss.

Willie: Or if you, yeah...

Joseph: Okay, I found it, I found it.

Willie: I was gonna say what Taylor said, if you start with S A H E, that'll get you there.

Taylor: Yeah. And so, like, the, your assistant guy talks about this thing ad nauseum. And so you're sitting here playing this game and you're hearing this word so many times. Sahelanthropus Boss, what do you think it is? Sahelanthropus, and they're just saying it over and over. [laughs]

Soon, it becomes part of the white noise.

Joseph: Yeah, dude. I was fucking, I was trying to type in... I was trying to type in the word philanthropist.

Taylor: Yeah, exactly. It's like a rap. Like I'm the Sahelanthropus. I'm a philanthropist. I'm watering your plants for this-

Joseph: This is a pretty tall boss.

Taylor: Yeah, dude, he's massive. And you are, when he comes out, you are a little guy walking around the desert. If you look at his movement. He doesn't move like a, like a giant of that size and magnitude in games. He moves like a regular character. So if he runs, he is sprinting across the land and coming at you as in he's 400 yards away. Okay. Now he's right in front of you in two seconds. He's... Like he can sprint and stuff, you know, he has, I guess his size does affect his motion a little bit, but not enough and it's very... to me, it was scary as hell because he came out and I had zero game plan for it because there was nothing else like that in the entire game until just now, this moment.

And suddenly there's this giant robot and he's he can hit you. He could stomp on you. He could shoot missiles at you. He had a crazy laser. It was very robot jocks or any other robot movie that you've ever seen. And you're a dude on the ground. And so you have to kind of get your robot, ride that thing as fast as you can, go jump in tanks, do anything you can to, to kind of get weaponry to fight him.

And almost everybody starting off is probably going to shoot at him all over, find out that he kills you real fast, but eventually you figure out that you have to blast on his legs and take out his weak points and things like that to bring him down. But he's just overwhelming at first because he's so big.

He's so powerful. He can kill you with one hit, um, I believe a lot, or most of his attacks very much IRL style. Like you're not going to take a bunch of hits from something like that. But then again, you're not going to take more than one rocket to the face in IRL either, so.

Joseph: Right.

Taylor: That was a really fun one for me.

Joseph: I saw somebody like trying to hide underneath a bridge or some type of like, um, I dunno, some type of bridge structure. Oh, no,. this is on a vehicle. Oh, maybe, maybe this is the mech part.

Taylor: Yeah.

Joseph: Okay.

Taylor: There was a vast array of vehicles and stuff too, on that game, which it was really impressive. So many different vehicles you could drive.

And so that set up for that boss fight too, to bam, let me go see what I can find and get in as fast as I can to start blasting on him.

00:22:46

Willie: I really dig that game and I never finished it. I stopped just before this boss, I think, I'm pretty sure.

Taylor: Oh man, sorry. [Taylor and Joseph laugh]

Willie: No, it's all good.

Taylor: Maybe now you'll have a reason to get back in there. It's worth it, just to see this thing.

Willie: Yeah, maybe. Cause the thing is, Metal Gear, while it's always surprising, it's also never surprising cause it could be anything, right?

Taylor: Yeah.

Willie: Nothing is shocking because it's like, well, of course. And when you think about Metal Gear, you think there's going to be some sort of big Metal Gear, like structure. Even if this is like, not the thing, like, you know, it's going to be something like this.

Taylor: Could be static and just sitting there or could be moving. This was, just the speed and everything of this one really alarmed me because when you see it come down, your immediate thought is, okay, giant robot. I've seen a bunch of these. It's going to be slow. I've got some time. No, he is sprinting, coming right at you knows you're there. That was the other thing that was so scary, was that, it wasn't like he was like, I'm a giant robot. Where's my little target? He looks right at you and starts trying to light you up. Like, there's no question of where's the, the guy I need to get to. He knows.

Joseph: Okay. So what I thought was a bridge earlier was actually the missiles on top of the vehicle that this person jumped into.

Taylor: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying is like some of these vehicles they have are insane. Just some of the most military vehicles you've ever seen with the rockets all on top.

Joseph: Dude, what is on its back? Like there's something extending, like off of its side.

Taylor: I think that's it's laser or something. Maybe that's what...

Willie: It has a rail gun on it for sure.

Taylor: Yeah, there you go.

Joseph: I don't want to spoil anyone's picks, but this had me thinking about the Fire Giant in Elden Ring.

Taylor: Oh, yeah.

Joseph: In terms of like, size, I wonder where these two stack up against each other, of like, which one is the bigger, taller boss?

Willie: They do feel pretty close, I wonder. Wonder if there's a way to find those measurements, I might be trying to find that in a little bit.

Joseph: It seems like it, looking at how tall they are in the game.

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: That's pretty cool. This is pretty awesome. I have not played any of the later Metal Gear games.

Taylor: I feel like this, this would be, four would be great too. You could probably enjoy any of them, just the third person and the, I don't know, they're very cool and the humor and everything about them is very well done.

But that one is kind of the culmination of all of it. And open world and, and really add some, some really neat elements to it, that if you're feeling more open worldly about it, then that one's a ton of fun.

Joseph: Interesting.

Taylor: And if not, then four would probably be really good for you because it's more, it's more linear, but still you get kind of a cool engine that's nice and smooth, quick, has good combat. And you get to see one of the most ridiculous final boss fights in history. So...

Joseph: Oh, is it the final games? It's the final boss fight in the game?

Taylor: In yeah, yeah, not this one, not this one. I'm talking about, uh, Ocelot.

Joseph: Oh, okay, okay. So how difficult is this boss fight?

Taylor: If you know what to do, I don't think it's very difficult at all. It's mostly about avoiding it.

Joseph: Just not getting destroyed.

Taylor: Exactly. Also, I hate to, I hate to burst your bubble, but it looks like Elden Beast, uh, from Elden Ring.

Joseph: Oh, is the tallest, biggest?

Taylor: Might be bigger, yeah. And then Shadow of the Colossus, the Colossi is the biggest game.

Joseph: Mmm, okay.

Willie: Yeah.

Taylor: And then number two is, uh, oh, I'm not even gonna, oh, Breath of the Wild is the old Zelda, right?

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: Yeah.

Taylor: Okay, so Dark Beast Ganon.

Joseph: Okay, yeah, I see that. Huh, yeah, I forgot about that, in terms of size. Hmm.

Taylor: I'm surprised Dead Space 3 is number 4 on the list, huh. It really gets to be to that point of like, I don't, I can't remember. I've seen so many bosses that it's hard to remember most of them.

Joseph: Oh yeah, for sure. That's why I wasn't even trying to like squeeze in like the, my top of all time or favorite of all time. I was just like, let me just choose some that I, the few that come up immediately in my mind.

Taylor: Yeah, that's a good call.

Joseph: That I just remember enjoying.

Taylor: Yeah, that was a great way to do it too. Cause I, yeah, to try to quantify them all in a list and everything that starts to get tedious and complex. This was, this is a good way to do it. What'd you end up choosing for yours?

00:26:54

Joseph: The first one I'm going to talk about is General RAAM from the original Gears of War, which is the final boss fight. So if you've never played Gears of War and you don't want to get spoiled on that, now's a good time to [Taylor chuckles] either fast forward or turn it off.

But General RAAM is, I mean, he's, he's a locust. He's a drone, but he's a bad motherfucker. [Taylor chuckles] Probably the biggest, baddest dude in Gears of War. I think he's probably the biggest, baddest boss in all of the Gears of War games. You basically defeat him at the end of the first game. He does make a second appearance in a DLC for Gears of War 3, called RAAM's Shadow, which is fucking cool because you get to play as General RAAM.

Taylor: Oh, wow.

Joseph: And like, control the Kryll, and like, send them after COG soldiers and stuff like that, and basically just like rip COG soldiers to shreds.

Taylor: That's neat.

Joseph: But he is menacing, man. I think one of the most sinister looking bosses I can think of. And he's huge, man. He's ten feet tall. So he's fucking towering over everybody, constantly picks up people with one hand and just kind of throws them around and we're talking like COGs like, you know, like Dom and Marcus Phoenix.

Taylor: Thick, thick boys.

Joseph: Like, these are big dudes. Yeah, they're probably like 300 plus pounds with all their armor on because they're, they're pretty freaking jacked character designs to begin with. But you face off against him at the end of Gears of War, on a train called, uh, Tyro Pillar. And he's basically at the head of the train, guarding, uh, what's called the Lightmass Bomb in the game.

It's what the Gears are after to destroy all the, uh, the Locust army that's underground. But RAAM hijacked the train because I guess he knew they were coming for the bomb. So he hijacks the train. He's there guarding it. You have to fight your way through the train to get to him, and then once you get there, it's, uh, you and Dom. Like, you play Marcus Fenix, so it's you and Dom fighting against RAAM and then there's, uh, some other characters in the game that are flying in a King Raven helicopter that are kind of assisting from the air.

It can be an extremely difficult fight, dude, especially if you play it on Insane. It will fuck you up fast. Even Hardcore is pretty hard. Obviously, Gears of War is like you get in and out of cover, and that's like one of the best ways to not fucking get dead. But the goal in that fight is to blind fire over the cover so that you can do damage.

But RAAM he's surrounded in like this aura of Kryll, so you have to get the Kryll off of him before you can even do damage to him.

Taylor: That's what those are called Kryll, those little bat things?

Joseph: Kryll. Yeah, yeah.

Taylor: Huh.

Joseph: So you have to get them off and you can do that easily with a Torque Bow. It's a bow in the game that you can like charge up a shot and then once it hits it's like explosive.

Taylor: Oh, that weapon is so good. Yeah. I forgot about the Torque Bow. That is, that is easily one of the coolest weapons.

Joseph: Yeah, it's fucking rad. But switching between the torque bow to get the Kryll off, and then once he's exposed, you can swap to the Lancer, or some people use a Long Shot too, but you have to be good with the Long Shot, which is the sniper rifle in Gears of War.

But you can do heavy damage with the Lancer, and he's just like slow walking toward you, you know? So you have to basically get some blind fire in, get the Kryll off of him, do damage, and then if he gets too close, you have to like boogie your ass to the other side of the train to take cover on the other side without dying.

And And that's it. So like, I don't think he he doesn't have a lot of health, but if you're caught exposed, especially on the higher difficulty levels, like he will fuck you up fast.

Taylor: His death is epic. I just watched it.

Joseph: Uh-huh.

Taylor: It's a little anticlimactic because it's quick, but, he, he just... It's the classic slow mo falling backwards with his arms up-

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Taylor: -and then he just quickly lands with his bloody face on the, on the train. And then it's just, they walk up and they're like, oh, I guess he's dead.

Joseph: Exactly. But he's, he's got a handheld Troika, like his weapon's, like a fucking machine gun that's handheld. So he will shred you to pieces quickly. Also in the fight, you have to stay in the well lit areas on this platform so that the Kryll just don't swarm you and destroy you. As long as you don't bunker down into a spot that's in the shadows and you keep moving, when he gets too close, like, you can, you can survive.

Uh, you can also play him co-op, which, if you're playing on Insane, you're probably gonna fucking need co-op to beat him unless you're, like, trying to cheese him in some way. But one of the coolest moments for RAAM in general is that first game, when he kills, uh, Lieutenant Kim in the Gears of War Ultimate, like the remastered version of the game from, I think it was 2015.

The cutscene in that, the way they improved it, it's fucking great. But if you watch the cutscene of when he kills Kim in Gears of War, he looks like a fucking badass.

Taylor: Huh.

Joseph: Really, really fucking cool cutscene.

Willie: I definitely remember this, this fight, as soon as you said who it was, I was like, oh, yeah, that train fight. Just because it's like, yeah, yeah, the dude's just like hulking around that section. [Joseph laughs]

And you're just trying to avoid him just so you can take shots at him from a distance like over and over again.

Joseph: He's big and slow.

Willie: Yeah. But that, that is a good fight. Like, I just, I definitely remember that one. I, like, I immediately, just remember that setting and that mission, I think in general.

Joseph: Mm-hmm. But he's such a badass man, I think that's why, that's why it's a fight I thought about. Well, 1, I mean, Gears of War, that 1st game is 1 of my favorite games of all time. And then he's just the biggest, baddest motherfucker in that game. He's also playable in Killer Instinct from, uh, like the reboot of Killer Instinct from 2013.

Willie: Yeah, I'd seen that somewhere.

Taylor: Hmm.

Joseph: But again, like, he's pretty slow. Like, he's pretty slow in that game too but I think he has, um, he's got his dagger as a weapon in that game, which is essentially like what he uses to execute Kim. And then he also, I guess I don't have to say the name, but in the DLC of RAAM's Shadow, he kills another person.

But overall, man, I've never kind of forgotten just how badass he felt and looked in that first game when I played through it the first time.

00:32:48

Willie: Yeah, I do think there's something in general about those enemies that are, they're obviously very identifiable at this point, but they definitely felt like a threat from the outset.

All of them were menacing, but then you find the biggest one of them who like, clearly doesn't give a fuck about any of the COG or humans or anything else other than what they're doing. And it's like, of course that dude is scary as fuck.

Taylor: Yeah.

Joseph: If you dig into the lore, there's like a prequel comic, I think that, it's about RAAM and like Queen Myrrah and there's another general before RAAM who RAAM basically replaces and his name is Sraak. And he's actually taller than RAAM, he's fucking 12 feet tall.

Taylor: Oh wow.

Joseph: But what happens in the comic is basically about how General RAAM rises to the rank of High General and like takes over for Sraak. I haven't read the comic, but I listened to some people kind of read through it and summarize it. But in general, the reason RAAM, I think is, uh, the most kick ass boss is because he's smart.

Like he's a tactician, a military tactician. And that's like, basically how he kind of overthrows Sraak and then ends up as High General. And then that's how we meet him in Gears of War. And then the last thing I want to say is, uh, this is funny, I came across this, I think maybe on fandom when I was just kind of looking for like his height and shit like that to confirm all of that. He was named after the owner of a local Indian restaurant that the Epic staff members were eating at.

Taylor: Oh, wow. I love when they put a little something like that, like the Lucky's Puccia, Pizzas and stuff.

Joseph: Oh, yeah.

Taylor: It's awesome.

00:34:21

Joseph: So we got Mr. Freeze. That was Arkham City, right?

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: And then we have, I don't even know how to say that fucking boss name from Metal Gear 5.

Taylor: Sahelanthropus.

Joseph: [laughs] And then General RAAM from Gears of War. Uh, Willie, what do you have next?

Willie: I have a tough decision, that's what I have next. [Taylor chuckle] Because I feel like I could, I could double dip on, [chuckles] on Metal Gear.

Joseph: Oh, okay.

Willie: On that series.

Taylor: There's a lot of dipping to be done. [chuckles]

Willie: There are a lot of good bosses in that series.

Taylor: Mm-hmm.

Willie: I could also take... something very similar to what you've just described, uh, in General RAAM.

Joseph: Mmm.

Willie: But not, not in the same series.

Joseph: Not from, not from Metal Gear or Gears?

Willie: No, that just feels like the, it feels reminiscent of that.

Joseph: RAAM's the perfect character that, they don't have to tell you he's a badass. You know, like he doesn't have to tell you he's a badass. Like you fucking know it. Like just from his posture, and the weight of his footfalls, and gnarly fucking face.

Willie: Did you, do you play the early Metal Gear games, Joey? Because you mentioned you didn't play the later ones, but you played the early ones.

Joseph: Yeah. Not many of them. I'd have to revisit them to be like, oh yeah, yeah, I played that.

Willie: Um.

Joseph: But if you, if you're picking a boss from there, I probably wouldn't know it. That would be my guess.

Willie: All right. I'm going to go with a boss from Metal Gear Solid. So the first one from PS1. So this is your chance to duck out if you don't want to know anything about this game. And this one's interesting, and I'll just get into it. This one's interesting just because it breaks the fourth wall.

Uh, so if that doesn't ring a bell for you, I'm going to pick Psycho Mantis from Metal Gear Solid.

Taylor: Oh yeah, that was a good one.

Willie: What you know throughout that game, and I'm trying to remember leading up into that fight, like, is that this guy has, like, psychokinetic powers and he's telepathic. But right before you get to him, the person you're with Meryl, starts acting strange.

She like has a headache or something. And then suddenly she's like, we need to go and like lead you into this office. And suddenly that game, all of the fucking, all of the Metal Gear Solid games have some weird shit in them. So one of the weird things in this game is like, she starts coming on to you. I think she like says like, make love to me, Snake or some shit like that. [Taylor and Joseph laugh]

And she's being mind controlled by Psycho Mantis, and the Colonel calls you on your, what is that thing called? Is it your codex? Is that literally what it's called? Uh, he calls you on the radio and is like, she's clearly not herself, knock her out. She's being controlled or something. Like, don't use your weapon on her.

So you have to knock her out first. And then Psycho Mantis reveals himself or like, you notice, like, he's there in optic camouflage, just like floating behind her and has been mind controlling her like for the last couple of minutes.

Joseph: So he was literally there behind her the whole time?

Willie: Yeah. As you get into the office, he was like controlling her from inside the office. And then he's in there while you're talking.

Joseph: Ah, okay.

Willie: But then he goes on a rant, like every villain in anything ever, and telling you like how awes-

Joseph: -Hold me. Hold me, Snake.

Willie: How awesome he is. And he tells you like, I can read your every thought. Let me read your mind, sort of thing. And then, he's like, no, I'll read your past, basically. And he starts, like, giving you a breakdown of, of things. In one of the playthroughs that I watched, and I don't know how much this changes, it definitely changes based on your playstyle in the game. It'll be like, you're a very methodical man, the kind that always kicks his tires before he, he leaves, and like, you're a highly skilled warrior, well suited to stealth or some shit like that.

And then-

Joseph: Doug Stone. [Joseph and Taylor chuckle]

00:37:54

Willie: -Yeah, and he's like, now I'll read more deeply into your soul. And he says, I can see your mind. And he starts, uh, he starts telling you Konami games that you like.

Joseph: Are you serious?

[Taylor laughing]

Willie: Because he's, he's reading your memory card for shit [Taylor chuckles] and he'll just start saying shit like- [Taylor chuckles]

Joseph: Ah, get outta here.

Willie: -Oh, so you like Azure Dreams or you like Castlevania, don't you?

Joseph: Wow!

[Taylor laughing]

Willie: And if you've got those saves on there, it'll just tell you that shit.

Taylor: That was so funny when it happens too.

Joseph: Dude, that's...that's pretty awesome.

Willie: And he's like, I can see you enjoy role playing games. Like, if that's the kind of games that you have saved on there, whatever.

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Willie: And then he like tells you, basically if you've saved less than three times, he's like, I see you haven't saved often.

Joseph: No shit.

Willie: He's like, you're somewhat reckless. Or like, he'll say something else if you've gone over three saves. Some shit about, just like your playstyle.

Joseph: This is fucking brilliant, dude.

Willie: He's like, I can read you like an open book.

Taylor: Yeah. That's why people love Kojima so much.

Joseph: [chuckles] Yeah, it's great.

Taylor: Still from that area, that was genius.

And basically after that, he's like, alright, this demonstration is over and, and you get into the fight. And the fight is almost impossible, if you just start fighting him. It doesn't, I think people have worked out the math and I think it's like one in every 10 shots will hit him, because he knows what you're doing. Like, he's like reading your fucking mind.

Joseph: Mmm.

Willie: If you die, I think it's if you die, or die enough times, you'll get a call, or no, if you call the Colonel on the radio after having died enough times, or just call him enough times, he'll tell you that Psycho Mantis is reading your controller inputs. [chuckles] So you have to move the controller from port 1 to port 2 on the Playstation.

Joseph: No way.

Taylor: Oh.

Willie: So that he can't read your fucking controller inputs.

Joseph: That's wild.

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: It's crazy.

Taylor: I forgot about that part.

Joseph: I think that's the best part. I feel like that's the iconic thing. Like, I feel like that, that line gets quoted a bunch, which is just like, plug your controller into controller port two. [Joseph laughs]

[laughs] Is the Colonel telling you that shit?

[Taylor laughs]

Willie: So here's the thing, if you don't do that and you die, you'll get another call from the Colonel being like, is there something keeping you from moving the controller to controller port two? And then- [Taylor laughs]

Joseph: Oh wow, that's like the hurry up, hurry up. What are you doing?

Taylor: It's like, do you want to win?

Willie: If you don't do that, then he and Naomi Hunter, who's also been on the radio the whole time, not the whole time, but throughout the game, they'll give you another way to defeat him.

They'll be like, oh, the statues around the room, those are representations of him. If you, if you remove the leather wraps around the statues, like, he'll see, he'll see that, and he'll see, like, his scarred face, which he doesn't like. And like, maybe that'll distract him enough so that you can fight him. So then you have to go around the room.

And I think there's like three or six statues. Like, I think there's like three on either side. And if you start attacking those things, he'll become vulnerable to your hits because he, he will be paying attention to that instead of like reading your mind.

Joseph: Man, I love it dude. That's great that there's even like an alternate, like a, an alternative.

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: You know, it's like if you didn't change the, you know, the controller port, there's still another way you can defeat him. I love that because it just shows that they're thinking about, they're thinking about the entire experience.

Willie: Yeah, so it released on PlayStation 1 and then later got released as a GameCube game, I think called the Twin Snakes edition or something like that, but that subtitle-

Joseph: Mm.

Willie: -and on GameCube, you could also switch the controller port and also it would reference different games whenever you were talking to Psycho Mantis, when he was reading your memory card.

But that whole fight, he is using like psychokinetic powers, right? He's just like moving shit around the room and throwing stuff at you the whole time, which is not hard to dodge or anything. It's literally the fact that like, when you shoot at him, you just miss, only one out of every ten shots hits-

Joseph: right, right, right.

Willie: -if you are just shooting at him.

Joseph: Huh. These graphics though. Man, this is hard to watch

Willie: I mean this is back in the day, man. [Joseph laughs]

Joseph: It's cool though. I even liked how they visualized and how, how it looked when Psycho Mantis was invisible.

Willie: Yeah, yeah, definitely some old school optical camouflage sort of shit.

Joseph: Mm hmm. This shit, this shit was top of the line, man.

Taylor: Yeah.

00:42:18

Willie: Yeah, it really was, man. And I remember that fight was definitely, obviously it breaks the fourth wall with both him talking to you about the games you like, but also Colonel telling you to move your controller, right? And it's like, they're talking to you for sure.

Joseph: Yeah, that's cool.

Willie: It's just so fucking weird.

Joseph: I can imagine like playing that for the first time then, and being like, [Willie chuckles] feeling like, this is weird. Like...

Willie: Yeah.

Taylor: Yeah, cause it wasn't a given back then. Now you just be like, oh, they're, they're just reading the memory card.

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Taylor: Anybody can do that. But back then, yeah, that was something that had never been done,

so.

Willie: Man, I can safely say I had never seen anything like that. I think up until that point.

Joseph: Yeah, man. Hell no. This is a, yeah, this is a, an original idea.

Taylor: And if you think about it, that goes back to what we were talking about with AI, you know?

Willie: Yeah.

Taylor: Imagine AI being able to do that and be like, I know what your web browser history, so I don't know. [Joseph and Taylor laugh]

Willie: Oh man-

Joseph: Oh, yeah. But when it feels like magic, man. I can imagine that moment kind of feeling like it was magic. And I think that's where it's like super successful, is because it's unexpected and it just feels kind of magical.

Willie: -I just remembered... [sighs] Man, I hope I don't ruin this, and if I do, just take it out. Uh, I saw a ridiculously stupid joke about this whole fight. It was in, in the, shit, what's the word I'm looking for? I guess it was a YouTube short that was like, hey, one of those, "hey, did you know" sort of things about Metal Gear Solid. And it's like, hey, did you know in Metal Gear Solid, in the Psycho Mantis fight, if you remove everything from your memory card except for Raw vs. Smackdown 2006.

Joseph: Oh my gosh. [Taylor and Joseph laugh]

Taylor: Great.

Willie: When you fight Psycho Mantis, he can't, he can't read your memory card, and that's because one of the main characters of this game is John Cena-

Joseph: What?

Willie: And it's just like such a stupid joke somebody made. [Joseph laughs] It has nothing to do with the game at all, right? It was just like this person.

Joseph: Yeah.

Taylor: So stupid, so stupid.

Willie: Couching this in this like hey, did you know this about this game?

Joseph: That's good, yeah.

Willie: I'll have to find the creator of that cuz [Joseph chuckles] I don't know the person's name right now. But it was such a stupid, funny joke.

Joseph: This is cool. I'm gonna have to watch this whole thing. The video I found is 15 minutes about 15 minutes. I'm gonna have to watch it with the audio.

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: Just to get a better sense of how this all plays out. But I'm sad I missed this one within its time-

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: 'cause- I don't remember this at all.

Taylor: It was pretty obscure. That was before Kojima really had a big name, I think, or, or much name at all. That was like one of the first big Konami games like that period.

Joseph: Is this the Metal Gear that introduced like the stealthing around, and that had like the cones of like visibility, and like where you could be seen and where you couldn't, and there was like a, like a radar map and stuff like that? Is this the game or am I thinking one that's older?

Taylor: It did that, for sure.

Willie: This one definitely did it, but I'm trying to think if the original Metal Gear on Nintendo had sort of that visibility cone stuff too, because I feel like it did and I can't remember. I can't place it, but this is definitely the first moment where you get that overhead camera situation that is like showing you all of that on the map, where you see the radar, you should see them indicated on the radar and their cones of visibility, so you know where to stealth and where to like sneak past cameras or guards or whatever.

Joseph: Yeah. Cause it was like, you could see the directions they were facing-

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: -and knew of like, whether or not, you know, you would be seen.

Willie: Yeah.

00:45:34

Joseph: Hmm. All right, Taylor, what do you have? Second boss fight.

Taylor: So, second boss fight is, this is a, uh, this is one that was more just like, sticks in my mind because of, uh, trauma reasons. But, um, the Elder Dragon from Dark Souls 2.

Joseph: I was wondering if something from Dark Souls or even Elden Ring, somebody would mention one of those today.

Taylor: It'd be hard not to because there are so many good bosses in those, almost too many good bosses to even remember or recall a single one out of them. But yeah, that Elder Dragon was, that was a different thing altogether because you're fighting it on a giant floating platform, that's just a huge square. And then the dragon takes up about, half of that square.

And then he has his move set, one was a rolling fire that would take up about, I don't know, 70% of the square. And he would turn around, whip his body, and that would be like another 70% of the square moving or 80% was, you know, all of it was literally just you having to escape him, long enough for you and the squad to beat the hell out of them in the moments that you get to.

And Souls, so many of the bosses, the big ones like that, your first tactic or eventual tactic will be get up under them and start swatting at their feet. But this guy would stomp you if you, if you swatted his feet and he would stomp sometimes, and then most of the time, instead of stomping or with the stomping, he would do a fire move, which was just like, rolling fire straight down and then fire rolls completely around him.

I think the way I finally beat him was I discovered that you just had to go absolutely bonkers with your fire protection.

Joseph: Mm.

Taylor: You know, you were like upping your fire protection and then using a fire ring and armor that was all OP against fire, and finally you could kind of half battle him. But you still had to get lucky.

Joseph: I found a video. It's Ancient Dragon boss.

Taylor: Oh, I'm sorry. Maybe that's it, Ancient Dragon.

Joseph: Okay. Now it just started to spin fires so I think I'm watching the right thing. It's like outside of a castle or something like in the, it's like a round platform.

Taylor: I believe so. If it's a big, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The, and the platform doesn't look very big when the dragon is, uh, on there and...

Joseph: Yeah, this is a big fucking dragon.

Taylor: That one basically made me quit the game twice. [Joseph laughs]

Like, I totally, I was like, I'll never beat this guy.

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Taylor: And it always is crazy because you'll see, like on this video I'm watching now, a guy's just beating him by himself. So it can be done. I think it's just one of those things where I don't, I don't like to resort to having to go online and look at all the techniques for a boss.

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Taylor: Specifically on the Souls games and I don't know why. I just... I like that I like figuring out the puzzle of beating them as opposed to going and seeing the easy answer, so...

Joseph: That was my approach to Elden Ring for sure.

Taylor: Yeah and that can make it, it makes it way harder because you don't have that information the alpha context of, do this, go here, be here when they're doing this, and then that helps. But sometimes I have to, I think for the dragon I'm pretty sure I did. Yeah, I eventually said I've got to get past this dude, or I'm never gonna finish this game.

Joseph: Yeah,

Taylor: And finally looked it up.

Joseph: Finding a place to draw the line.

Taylor: Yeah, exactly because after quitting twice and then coming back to it.

Joseph: Mm hmm. The first comments on this YouTube video is pretty funny, it says, so basically the reward for beating this optional boss is the ability to beat another optional boss. [Joseph and Taylor chuckle]

Taylor: That's very Souls like. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds about right.

00:49:15

Joseph: Willie, which Dark Souls games have you played?

Willie: Uh, I think two is the only one that I've actually put in any time on, but I never made it to this part, right? Cause this is a Dark Souls 2 thing, isn't it?

Taylor: Yep.

Willie: I'm trying to remember Taylor, you and I played a little bit of maybe three online together.

Taylor: Yep.

Willie: But still, I think that's probably the only bit, and that's, that's probably less than ten hours, I would say, for sure.

Taylor: When we tried to play, and especially, it was like that on one. Like, I even convinced Mike to play, and he is not big into games like that, like fantasy games and stuff. It was too complex. It was too complex. Like they were too cute with the, here's where you can join. Here's how you can join. Here's when you can join. And it led to a lot of attrition I found on those games where.

Okay, if you got left behind, your buddy either had to create a new character to come back and help you, or you just had to do it on your own. Whereas, well, Elden Ring, they finally gave up on that and went the right way and said, hey, let's let you play with your friends. And for the most part, let you do it as much as you want, where you want it, when you want it.

And that was so smart, man. That was that era, Willie, when we tried to play together and it was the same thing. There were just all these stipulations about when and how you could join. And that's all it takes to break you down. Put one big hurdle up as to tell you, oh, you've already beaten this boss. You can't come back and help your buddy beat it or whatever. And well, okay, I guess we're done with this game, so...

Joseph: I found a second comment that is for people like me. Here's the comment. For those of you who missed this era of Souls, this was no easy task. The amount of patience alone required to beat this dragon is unprecedented.

Taylor: It was wild. Like that, the guy that in the video we're watching with the lightning sword, the amount he's taking off of that, he must be incredibly overpowered-

Joseph: Yeah, I think I'm watching the same video.

Taylor: -because I remember having a sick... yeah, we were. I had a crazy weapon that was just OP for everything. And then in that dragon fight, it was barely slicing. I, Might have even been that you had to use a certain weapon with lightning or something to take a decent chunk off of him.

Joseph: Yeah.

Taylor: And generally the way that I beat a boss like that is, two people joined up with me and happened to be super bad asses, [Joseph laughs] and I ran, and ran, and ran, long enough and hard enough, and away enough.

Joseph: Keep yourself alive.

Taylor: Yeah, that I lived through it. That was-

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: Nice.

Taylor: -Basically, the way to beat it.

Joseph: Solid tactics.

Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. Run faster than your friends.

Willie: I feel like the only bit of Dark Souls, other than any of what I just said that I played was, like, it's been less than, less than 20 hours over the first three games for sure. And I think in the, the first game I might've played with Taylor at some point or watch Taylor play.

Taylor: Well, like at some point it was like super cheap or something. I think we all picked it up.

Willie: Yeah.

Taylor: You, me, and Mike may have actually been intending to play the first one. Just didn't work out that way.

00:52:10

Willie: Damn, I don't know if I want to say this since we're talking about bosses, but I also do because I think, one, I don't want to shit on this boss because I, I, I, it's probably hard as fuck, but there is an Elden Ring dragon that I don't know if either of y'all ever fought still. And I tried getting y'all to go fight it.

Joseph: It's a...Farum Azula?

Willie: No. Um, yeah, the, uh, there is one, the one in Farum Azula. Did y'all ever fight Dragonlord Placidusax or whatever that fucking long ass name is?

Joseph: This is the one we had to like go out and then like under something, right?

Willie: Yeah, under and drop down onto a platform. We were going to play together. We were in one of y'all's games.

Joseph: Uh-huh.

Willie: I'd already beaten it and I was like, we should go check out this boss. And we tried to go to it and we couldn't like we, as a multiplayer, you can't go to that boss together.

Joseph: That's right. That's right. Yep.

Taylor: Oh.

Willie: And I was like, y'all got to come back to the spot at some point and go down there and fight this cause this fucking cut scene is bad ass and that dragon is not super fucking hard.

I don't think it's anything as hard as what you just described cause I, I beat it in like less than five tries, I bet. But it is just a bad ass fight. And the cinematic leading into that fight is cool as fuck.

Joseph: Yeah, that was me, that we were playing together and we tried to do that. Uh, five tries, man. Fu... I feel like just being straight melee, I would get fucking smashed.

Taylor: Yeah.

Willie: At that point I probably had something Tiche. What is that fucking summon?

Joseph: Oh, Black, Black Knife Tiche.

Willie: Yeah, Black Knife Tiege. I probably had them at that point and-

Joseph: Yeah, yeah.

Willie: -I could wreck some shit with that.

Joseph: Yeah, that was a solid fucking summon. What were they, what were they called? Uh, not Ashes of War, but... Spirit Ashes.

Taylor: Yeah.

Willie: It's been so long.

Joseph: Maybe as like, uh, whenever we get Elden Ring DLC news and then we all hop back into Elden Ring to get whipped back into shape, and go and fight that boss. I forgot about it.

Willie: Yeah, that's a good one, man. But it doesn't sound as hard as what you've described because it sounds like a lot of people were just like, fuck this guy.

[Willie and Joseph laugh]

Joseph: Yeah.

Taylor: Yeah, it was one. It was literally like, can you find the 10 ft square, that you can live whenever he does his attack?

Joseph: And optional too, you're definitely like, fuck this though, I don't even have to fucking fight this thing.

Taylor: Yeah, you gotta go out of your way and talk shit to it.

00:54:23

Joseph: I just sent y'all a video in chat for my next boss fight.

Willie: Oh, nice.

Joseph: So, recent, I guess within the past year that I played this boss fight, but it's from the game Celeste. Who knows, man, this could be the, the best platformer of all time, at least in my, on my list, it is definitely skyrocketed to the top.

The only thing that can really beat it out are games that I have like this real solid nostalgic connection to, you know, like Super Mario Brothers 3 or something. But this boss fight, are y'all there? Can y'all hear me?

Willie: Yeah, yeah.

Taylor: Yeah, yeah, yeah, [Joseph laughs] I'm watching it right now.

Joseph: Y'all are both just like dead still, I was like, oh shit, I think my internet fucked up.

Taylor: Yeah, and I'm watching this, and it seems very difficult.

Joseph: Willie, did you make it to this point in the game?

Willie: No, but I know this fight. I, like I do already know what happens in this and have seen...

Joseph: Gotcha. So this is, uh, essentially at the end of chapter six. I guess it's the last boss fight in the game, even though it's not at the end of the game. We could categorize the end of this game as a boss fight, maybe. Like, where you're actually scaling the summit of, of Celeste. Cause that's fucking pretty difficult, too.

Um, but this, I mean, the whole story has stuck with me in this game for sure. It's the perfect combination of a stellar platformer, and the mechanics just working so smoothly and it's just a great technical and mechanical execution of a platformer. And then you combine that with such a solid story that, I don't know, this is super memorable, the entire game, but this boss fight for sure.

And it's memorable because it's a turning point in the story for Madeline who's you know, the main character in the game. And the entire game, she's basically being haunted by her inner self, essentially, which is represented through a character that is officially named part of me slash, or part of you.

But everybody in the, you know, the gaming community or Celeste fans call her Badeline.

Taylor: Huh.

Joseph: So it's like a mirror image of Madeline. And she's basically all the deep, dark stuff that's inside of you. You know, like your insecurities, loneliness, inadequacy, failure, hopelessness. That's everything that Badeline represents.

Taylor: Hmm.

Joseph: And you find her a few times and she's primarily chasing you up until this point. This is the moment in the story where Madeline is like, I'm putting my foot down and I'm going to start facing Badeline. Which is basically what this fight becomes, but it's fucking long.

Taylor: Hmm.

Joseph: Dude, it's like 22 different, like, rooms in this chase.

Taylor: Yeah. That's crazy.

Joseph: The speed of it is really interesting. Badeline, she's floating in the air looking like Medusa with her hair, like, blowing in the wind, and she shoots out these orbs. And she has laser beams, and... The way you get from room to room is basically getting across the room and then touching her running into her and then that advances-

Taylor: Hmm.

Joseph: -the chase.

Taylor: Oh, so that's what was happening. I couldn't tell if she was punching her or hitting her with a sword or something. Okay. So you just have to tag her, basically.

Joseph: Yeah, you basically just kind of like run into her in any kind of way, that you can get to her. And then that, uh, basically advances the chase.

Taylor: God, looks hard. Like I, the person basically has to act immediately because I could see how before very long at all, you'd have so many fireballs in the air or so many, you know, those and the laser or something. And it seems like it'd be really hard to maneuver and navigate around.

Joseph: You have to move fast and then there's shit falling from the sky, you know, or falling from the ceiling.

That you're both using as platforms, but also avoiding because you can get crushed by them

Taylor: Crazy.

Joseph: Then on top of that, you have the orbs and then laser beams that Badeline is shooting out but it's awesome, man. This is like, this is the boss fight to, like, feel great about after completing. You know, like once you finally get through it and...

I mean, it's nice because you can kind of take it at your own pace. Like you, you reach a new checkpoint every time you advance the screen. So it's not like you have to ever start this boss fight from over because that would just be fucking, pretty awful.

Taylor: Oh, yeah, that's exact... I was like there's no way I'd ever beat this. That's good. So you just start that place over?

Joseph: Uh-huh, yeah. And it's, it's perfect for this game, right? Which is essentially the way this game works period. If you die, you restart on that screen immediately, and then you figure it out by trial and error.

Taylor: Hmm.

Joseph: You die over and over again. But each time you die and come back, you're able to get a little bit further or you realize what you did wrong, and then you can correct it. And that's eventually how you get through these stages and essentially the entire game.

Love this entire game. And this, this boss fight in general, what it means to the game and like the story, but also the difficulty is what makes it great.

Taylor: That's a tough one. Don't get into it unless you're ready for a tough platformer.

Joseph: This video, if you're watching the same one, no deaths and then no, no assist mode turned on.

Taylor: Wild. Make it look easy.

Joseph: I mean, this is like speed runner quality, uh, like a speed run, quality run.

Willie: Yeah. I think, like I said, I have played some of this game, but I don't remember how far I am, far in I am at the moment. But trying to get back into it was just such a pain in the ass because there's so many things that you have to do or learn how to do. Like, it stacks on top of each other, getting each of those different, like, abilities and then learning how to perfect them to not fuck up, to, you know, just get across the screen.

Watching people speedrun it, it's amazing. Watching a, a gameplay like that where the person is just like, quickly moving at a pace that you can barely keep up with and not hitting any, any of the shit on the wall or any of the shit that's falling or any of the stuff that's being shot at you the whole time.

Joseph: Mm hmm.

Willie: It's just ridiculous.

Joseph: Yeah, it's so fucking cool.

Willie: I could definitely never imagine doing that in one try. I just don't think that's in me. [chuckling] I'm pretty sure.

Joseph: [chuckling] It'd take a serious amount of practice.

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: Like I don't even want to do that. You know, like I'd rather spend time going back through and like playing the b-sides or going to collect the strawberries that I missed or I passed up or something.

Willie: Yeah, that's a great pick. And I think we don't even have to spoil it, but I think thematically, I like that boss fight and what it does represent to the rest of the game and that story.

Joseph: Such a key moment in the game. I mean, I guess it's like that is kind of spoilery-

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: -but it doesn't change how impactful the story actually is.

Willie: Right.

Joseph: Like when you play the game and you read the dialogue, and you hear the characters, they're not really speaking the dialogue, they're just making sounds, but that emotion comes across. And like, it doesn't really change, how impactful the story can be, even if you know what's going to happen.

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: I guess what I'm trying to say is play this fucking game because it's really, really good.

Willie: Yeah, that's a good pick.

01:00:42

Joseph: The last thing I want to say before we wrap up, is the one honorable mention. A boss fight I would have talked about today if it wouldn't have been a spoiler, for Willie, is a boss fight in Ghost of Tsushima, which I won't even name. But Taylor, you got all the way through ghost of Tsushima, right?

Taylor: No, sir.

Joseph: Oh, okay.

Taylor: No, I made it to the third section.

Joseph: Okay. So it'd be a spoiler for both of you. Maybe it's already been spoiled, but we'll have to circle back around one day if you finish Ghost of Tsushima. Because this boss fight, and it does happen to be at the end of the game, this boss fight is maybe the most memorable boss fight ever for me.

Taylor: Huh.

Willie: That's cool. That's one of those games that I want to finish and I still haven't gone back to yet. I think at this point I'm just afraid to like, try to pick it up in the middle of wherever I am and be like, can I even play this game anymore?

Joseph: I feel like Ghost of Tsushima is probably harder to pick up in the middle of than Celeste would be.

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: Just because there's fewer, there's fewer things to remember in Celeste, like the, there's things to remember, but there's just not a lot of mechanics in the game versus all the stances in Ghost of Tsushima. I can see how that, you could get fucked up pretty quickly.

Willie: Yeah, I definitely had a couple of honorable mentions, but you know, I think we can do this again. The other thing I'll say just rather vaguely, I think the other thing that maybe this becomes something we talk about later is...

A lot of games that I play didn't have boss fights necessarily, but they had like iconic last stages that I was thinking about. And so it's like, well, I can't really count that, so I'm not gonna say that. And there's definitely some that are spoilery for you, Joey, that I wouldn't say but

Joseph: That's funny you mention that, because that's exactly what I was talking about with Celeste.

Willie: Yeah.

Joseph: Because there's like no real final, end game boss, but you go through like this fucking gauntlet of climbing Celeste to get to the summit, and it fits in that category perfectly.

Willie: Yeah, I, I'll just shout out the one that I will say that, you know... I would want to pull something from the Halo series, but I don't think any of those boss fights are necessarily that iconic.

Joseph: Mm-hmm.

Willie: It was weird to see them in, in Halo 2, but I, I will say like the last sequence in Halo: CE will always be like something that is special and iconic. Just the like warthog run at the end to like get off of the ring.

Joseph: Yeah, you're right. Like, there's a lot to pull from, and I think we can, we can definitely do more of these in the future, just as we, you know, either play more games or continue to think about which of those boss fights we have played have kind of stuck out for whatever reasons they did.

Taylor: Yeah, that'd be fun.

Willie: Yeah.

Taylor: I'm down.

Willie: Cool. Well, um. I guess that wraps up this episode.

[Outro theme begins to fade in - Caribbean Arcade by Christian Nanzell]

So thanks for being here, if you're listening through this. And if you haven't listened to all the episodes, go back, check out some of our favorites if you didn't do that, if you joined us late, but we really appreciate you listening. So, uh, thanks for that.

Taylor: Thanks for tuning in. Get your hands back on those sticks.

Joseph: Go play games.

Taylor: Get your hands on those sticks.

Joseph: Nice. [laughs]

Taylor: [in a strained voice] Play your games.

Joseph: [copying Taylor's strained voice] Play your games, Jesus Christ.

Taylor: [in a strained voice] Go to your rooms, and play your games.

[Outro theme continues - Caribbean Arcade by Christian Nanzell]

01:03:36

Joseph: Berries and Blades is an independent podcast created by Joseph Bullard, Willie Garza and Taylor Garratt. Thanks for tuning in, and consider subscribing if you enjoyed listening to this episode. You can also support us by telling your friends about the show, and we hope to see you in the next episode of Berries and Blades. Until then, thanks again.

[Outro theme fades out - Caribbean Arcade by Christian Nanzell]

All right. [clears throat]

Taylor: Oh, it looks like our friends are here. Hang on, I'm gonna let them in.

Joseph: Aw fuck.

Taylor: They're probably gonna come to the studio door. Yeah.

[Knocking followed by dog barking]

[Taylor chuckles]

Joseph: [copies the dog’s bark]

[dog barking]

Joseph: Oh, they coming in through there?

Taylor: [away from microphone] Hello!

[dog barking]